Author Topic: Christianity in the News: Child Sex Abuse in the Polish Catholic Church  (Read 796 times)

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Question for Debate: Do you agree with me that we should get at this problem of child abuse by rooting it out at its foundation, Christian beliefs and those who support those beliefs?

To answer my own question, I believe that at the very least an impartial study conducted by competent, reputable psychologists is needed to determine why there is so much child abuse among the Christian clergy. If Christian beliefs are at the bottom of this abuse, then at the very least that fact should be recognized and people warned.

Offline Baruch

A sad tragedy for sure.  But not Christianity itself, or even Catholicism.  The problem was two fold … celibacy and secrecy.  An open Church would have made it impossible to hide abuse.  And celibacy is too much to expect of priests.

In Judaism we celebrate sex.  And as a tantrist, I doubly celebrate sex.  Some sex is sinful however, but sex itself is not.  Do you realize, that the celibacy rule came from the East, from India?  It was Buddhist monks and Hindu yogis who had a theory about celibacy, related to Ayurveda.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 10:25:52 AM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
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A sad tragedy for sure.  But not Christianity itself, or even Catholicism.

If Christianity is not at fault for this child abuse, then are there examples from non-Christian groups in which this kind of abuse happens and is officially covered-up by those who lead those groups? In addition to the Catholics, it is alleged that the Watchtower covers-up sex abuse among Jehovah's Witnesses. If you wish to blame celibacy, then you might blame the celibacy preached by Jesus.

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If Christianity is not at fault for this child abuse, then are there examples from non-Christian groups in which this kind of abuse happens and is officially covered-up by those who lead those groups? In addition to the Catholics, it is alleged that the Watchtower covers-up sex abuse among Jehovah's Witnesses. If you wish to blame celibacy, then you might blame the celibacy preached by Jesus.


If the story that Mary Magdalene was Jesus wife then why Jesus should preach celibacy?

There are so many stories about Jesus that now it become impossible to know which is true and which is false that is why we shouldn't tell that this is right and that is wrong although to me the Aquarian Gospel seem to carry more truth than anything else.
When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

It's not Christian belief per say. I think it has more to do with the authority status of preachers and pastors. They're literally treated as God's mouthpiece, so when a victim calls them out, the church rallies around the abuser instead of the victim. This, of course, can make it more difficult for abuse victims to come out in the first place. Some may even try to rationalize their abuse, thinking that it was somehow their fault.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

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If the story that Mary Magdalene was Jesus wife then why Jesus should preach celibacy?

Don't know what you're talking about, but according to 1 Corinthians 1:1-2, it is "good for a man not to marry." But those who can't control themselves should marry to avoid sexual immorality. That's not a quote from Jesus, but I believe he made a similar statement in another book, although I can't find it at the moment.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

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It's not Christian belief per say. I think it has more to do with the authority status of preachers and pastors. They're literally treated as God's mouthpiece...

But Christianity has set up the clergy claiming they speak for the Christian god. Without that belief, people would be less likely to trust the clergy resulting in less abuse.

Quote
...so when a victim calls them out, the church rallies around the abuser instead of the victim. This, of course, can make it more difficult for abuse victims to come out in the first place.


I have had such an experience although it wasn't sex abuse or Christianity that instigated it. I was defrauded by a local group that claims to help the disabled. When I went online to tell people about that group's corruption, some people associated with that group started to harass and threaten me. I was ridiculed by them and told that they were going to sue me. I understand that they've treated other people the same way especially anybody who dares to say anything about them. So yes, it's a common experience for people who have been victimized to fear saying anything because they may face retaliation.

Quote
Some may even try to rationalize their abuse, thinking that it was somehow their fault.

That's what my harassers told me. They told me that I am "bitter," and they told me that I deserved what they did to me because of that supposed bitterness. It appears that victims of the church are treated the same way.

Quote from: Martin Buber
Since the primary motive of the evil is disguise, one of the places where evil people are most likely to be found is within the Church. What better way to conceal one's evil from oneself, as well as from others, than to be a deacon or some other highly visible form of Christian within our culture?...I do not mean to imply that the evil are anything other than a small minority among the religious or that the religious motives of most people are in any way spurious. I mean only that evil people gravitate toward piety for the disguise and concealment it can offer them.


I can't believe pedophile priests and others who abuse both children and adults in their cults can possibly believe that their God is watching them perform their vile acts. I think too many of them become priests and such because they believe they can get away with it.

I doubt the Christian religion has a monopoly on abuse, though.
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"An experiment is a question which science poses to Nature, and a measurement is the recording of Nature's answer."
Max Planck, Scientific Autobiography and Other Papers (1949)

Offline Baruch

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If Christianity is not at fault for this child abuse, then are there examples from non-Christian groups in which this kind of abuse happens and is officially covered-up by those who lead those groups? In addition to the Catholics, it is alleged that the Watchtower covers-up sex abuse among Jehovah's Witnesses. If you wish to blame celibacy, then you might blame the celibacy preached by Jesus.

Christians and non-Christians are pedophiles.  It is part of human nature.  And yes, there is no such thing as morality.  Hare Krishna have been accused of immorality.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 09:31:03 PM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

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If the story that Mary Magdalene was Jesus wife then why Jesus should preach celibacy?

There are so many stories about Jesus that now it become impossible to know which is true and which is false that is why we shouldn't tell that this is right and that is wrong although to me the Aquarian Gospel seem to carry more truth than anything else.

There are many stories people tell.  All are false.  But the only way humans can communicate is through their false consciousness (real consciousness is atman etc).

What is communication?  I have an experience of fishing.  You have an experience of fishing.  If you tell me about your going fishing, I can understand what you are saying.  If I am unenlightened, and you are enlightened, then nothing you can communicate to me will make any sense.  Those who are enlightened know each other because we make sense to each other.  This is true in any human status, but particularly with enlightenment.  The Enlightenment of the West was a false dawn.  They were ignorant of the East at that time.  Western people since then, who have been open minded to the East, say ... aha ... I can relate to that.  But there is the maturity question ...

I was first open to the East in HS ... to Zen.  I have matured 45 more years since then.  Some go round and round and don't mature further.  Some only understand in old age, but prodigies understand in youth.  My learning of the East, hasn't made me Eastern, but has improved my Westerness.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

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Christians and non-Christians are pedophiles.  It is part of human nature.

Yes, people from all walks of life might be pedophiles. It's also important to understand that although child molesters are almost all pedophiles, not all pedophiles are child molesters. I wouldn't go so far as to say that pedophilia is "human nature," though. I honestly have no desire to have sex with kids.

In any case, I think some Christian doctrines can cause some people to abuse their kids. The gospel tale portrays Christ as lauding the law of Moses, and that law prescribed violence against some children. I should know because my Christian mother based her abuse inflicted on me in her Christian beliefs. I don't want it to happen to other people.

Offline Baruch

Sorry to hear your mother abused you.  Or were you just a disobedient child in need of correction.  Spare the rod ...
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Yeah, the Bible isn't exactly child-friendly:


Quote from: Psalm 137:9
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
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"An experiment is a question which science poses to Nature, and a measurement is the recording of Nature's answer."
Max Planck, Scientific Autobiography and Other Papers (1949)

Offline Baruch

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Yeah, the Bible isn't exactly child-friendly:

Yep.  Not Dr Seuess.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

I can't help but laugh sadly about all the priests and other religious types preying on children.  They are all sick "in a certain way" and it is because of their church demands.  When you collect people together in abnormally-restricted circumstances, that's what you get.

It is no surprise to me that forcing people who are basically mentally-imbalanced from the start to live non-regular lives creates bad outcomes. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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