Is the James in Galatians 1:19 evidence for a historical Jesus?

Started by Jagella, May 28, 2019, 11:38:18 AM

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Cavebear

Quote from: Jagella on June 05, 2019, 10:24:56 PM
Well, it should be a laughing matter. I've told real-Jesus apologists that they're trying to tell us that a magic man from the sky who became a flying zombie was historical. They had a hissy fit and called me names--seriously. As long as people insist on acting like fools religion will survive.

Can't agree with you more.  I can understand that in pre-logic and pre-science societies, all sorts of bizarre things seemed possible.  But when people think that way today, I am shocked. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on June 06, 2019, 01:53:50 AM
Can't agree with you more.  I can understand that in pre-logic and pre-science societies, all sorts of bizarre things seemed possible.  But when people think that way today, I am shocked.

This is why you hire an electrician ;-)

All words are code to be deciphered.  "Cat" isn't a cat.  You don't know what it means, except by reference to other words, or lived experience.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

Quote from: Jagella on June 05, 2019, 10:24:56 PM
Well, it should be a laughing matter. I've told real-Jesus apologists that they're trying to tell us that a magic man from the sky who became a flying zombie was historical. They had a hissy fit and called me names--seriously. As long as people insist on acting like fools religion will survive.
They simply can't understand why we laugh at them! LOL
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on June 06, 2019, 01:47:58 PM
They simply can't understand why we laugh at them! LOL

True, people who don't know what they are talking about are fish in a barrel.  But will you have chips too?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Unbeliever

Look, Jesus could not have been born after Herod the Great died, in 4 BCE, and he could not have been born before the census of Quirinius, in 6 CE., so he could not have been born at all.

Simple.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Jagella

Quote from: Unbeliever on June 07, 2019, 02:02:33 PM
Look, Jesus could not have been born after Herod the Great died, in 4 BCE, and he could not have been born before the census of Quirinius, in 6 CE., so he could not have been born at all.

That's a good point. I wonder how real-Jesus apologists might explain away that contradiction. I think they might insist that just because we have no idea when Jesus was born, that doesn't mean he was never born at all! The total lack of good evidence just doesn't seem to faze the assumption that he was born and lived.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Jagella on June 07, 2019, 10:42:07 PM
That's a good point. I wonder how real-Jesus apologists might explain away that contradiction. I think they might insist that just because we have no idea when Jesus was born, that doesn't mean he was never born at all! The total lack of good evidence just doesn't seem to faze the assumption that he was born and lived.
I used to puzzle about that.  What I think the problem is that they have faith.  Seems simple.  But I think that ability to just believe and have faith means that, for them, facts and reason or critical thinking, just does not matter.  They are told the best faith, the strongest faith (and faith is the path to salvation, brother!) is the best faith.  And what is faith?  To continue to believe even when it seems impossible to do so or to have faith despite facts.  The theist cannot be swayed by facts--witness Baruch and Airk--since facts are likely to be of the devil or just plain unimportant.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on June 07, 2019, 11:17:58 PM
I used to puzzle about that.  What I think the problem is that they have faith.  Seems simple.  But I think that ability to just believe and have faith means that, for them, facts and reason or critical thinking, just does not matter.  They are told the best faith, the strongest faith (and faith is the path to salvation, brother!) is the best faith.  And what is faith?  To continue to believe even when it seems impossible to do so or to have faith despite facts.  The theist cannot be swayed by facts--witness Baruch and Airk--since facts are likely to be of the devil or just plain unimportant.

Can't speak for Arik.  For me, facts merely demonstrate what I say.  We don't interpret the facts the same way.

There are occasions when faith (aka optimism) applies, tentatively.  Reality has a way of neutralizing faith.  But what I post here is based on experience not faith.  Nobody would accuse me of being an idealist, let alone an optimist ... really?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on June 08, 2019, 05:14:57 AM
Can't speak for Arik.  For me, facts merely demonstrate what I say.  We don't interpret the facts the same way.

There are occasions when faith (aka optimism) applies, tentatively.  Reality has a way of neutralizing faith.  But what I post here is based on experience not faith.  Nobody would accuse me of being an idealist, let alone an optimist ... really?
Actually, it is impossible to know what it is you really think about anything.  You use snark to such an extent that it totally covers up any real, actual Baruch thoughts you may have.  You almost seem afraid of exposing any real, actual thoughts you may have.  But then, there is a real possibility that that is who and what you are--snark and pessimism.  Throw in contrariness, and there you have it--snarky, pessimistic, contrary Baruch, the theist. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on June 08, 2019, 09:11:09 AM
Actually, it is impossible to know what it is you really think about anything.  You use snark to such an extent that it totally covers up any real, actual Baruch thoughts you may have.  You almost seem afraid of exposing any real, actual thoughts you may have.  But then, there is a real possibility that that is who and what you are--snark and pessimism.  Throw in contrariness, and there you have it--snarky, pessimistic, contrary Baruch, the theist.

See my latest post in the other string.  We know each other, but you need reminding anyway.

The world is filled with hurt and hurting people.  I can't blame people for being cynical or pessimistic given their condition.

Meanwhile, like everyone else, who know or don't know, I struggle to get thru one more day.

Are you really the don't worry, be happy guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on June 08, 2019, 11:00:09 AM
See my latest post in the other string.  We know each other, but you need reminding anyway.

The world is filled with hurt and hurting people.  I can't blame people for being cynical or pessimistic given their condition.

Meanwhile, like everyone else, who know or don't know, I struggle to get thru one more day.

Are you really the don't worry, be happy guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU
Yeah, I am much more of the 'don't worry, be happy' guy than the 'worry, worry, worry, oh woe is me' , guy.  I chose to look for the up side of everything more than looking at all the shit that happens.  I do realize and recognize that this world is full of suffering and pain.  I do what I can--I know my limits and adhere to them.  But I don't wallow in the pain and suffering, not even my own.  Basically, I am grateful for the life I have had and the little I have left.  I don't dwell on nor berate myself for all of the things I could have done, but didn't.  I am basically content with me and mine.   
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Jagella

Quote from: Mike Cl on June 07, 2019, 11:17:58 PM
I used to puzzle about that.  What I think the problem is that they have faith.  Seems simple.  But I think that ability to just believe and have faith means that, for them, facts and reason or critical thinking, just does not matter.  They are told the best faith, the strongest faith (and faith is the path to salvation, brother!) is the best faith.  And what is faith?  To continue to believe even when it seems impossible to do so or to have faith despite facts.  The theist cannot be swayed by facts--witness Baruch and Airk--since facts are likely to be of the devil or just plain unimportant.

Isn't it strange that while God doesn't want us to use our brains the Devil does want us to use our brains?

In any event, faith is essential for believing what there are no good reasons to believe. I think such faith is evident among those who want to believe in a historical Jesus.

Unbeliever

Quote from: Mike Cl on June 07, 2019, 11:17:58 PM
I used to puzzle about that.  What I think the problem is that they have faith.  Seems simple.  But I think that ability to just believe and have faith means that, for them, facts and reason or critical thinking, just does not matter.  They are told the best faith, the strongest faith (and faith is the path to salvation, brother!) is the best faith.  And what is faith?  To continue to believe even when it seems impossible to do so or to have faith despite facts.  The theist cannot be swayed by facts--witness Baruch and Airk--since facts are likely to be of the devil or just plain unimportant.

Yeah, You Cannot Reason People Out of Something They Were Not Reasoned Into.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Mike Cl

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?