Author Topic: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing  (Read 478 times)

This is the best Hubble image ever made!


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This is called the Hubble Legacy Field, and
you can find the image here:
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"Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is a child,"
Ecclesiastes 10:16
Or: Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is batshit crazy.

Offline Shiranu

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2019, 01:52:13 AM »
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This is the best Hubble image ever made!


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login



This is called the Hubble Legacy Field, and
you can find the image here:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I find it baffling that anyone can see this and then think we are the only life in the universe... and assuming there are multiverses, the only life in all of those as well.
"The ancients still want to speak to us, we've just forgotten the language.

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2019, 07:34:59 AM »
My little brain...oh
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2019, 07:45:24 AM »
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My little brain...oh
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We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2019, 01:34:36 PM »
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I find it baffling that anyone can see this and then think we are the only life in the universe... and assuming there are multiverses, the only life in all of those as well.
Max Tegmark, in his book Our Mathematical Universe, gives an interesting argument for no other life besides ours, based on something called a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. I don't have the book in front of me, so let's see if I can do justice to the argument.

Since we don't know how near is the nearest other intelligent life, then it could be anywhere from 10^21 meters (in our galaxy) 0r 10^100, or 10^1000, or any other order of magnitude, and they are all, a priori, equally likely. Since our observable universe is 10^26 meters, it's unlikely that the correct number is between the 10^21 meters and 10^26 meters, since such a small range is too small to be statistically likely, as any larger order of magnitude is equally likely.

I hope that's clear, if not I can find the book and give it in Tegmark's words.
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"Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is a child,"
Ecclesiastes 10:16
Or: Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is batshit crazy.

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2019, 01:49:36 PM »
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Hmmm. OK. I'll check it out.

I'm from the period of "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids."
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Online trdsf

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2019, 07:32:23 PM »
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Max Tegmark, in his book Our Mathematical Universe, gives an interesting argument for no other life besides ours, based on something called a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. I don't have the book in front of me, so let's see if I can do justice to the argument.

Since we don't know how near is the nearest other intelligent life, then it could be anywhere from 10^21 meters (in our galaxy) 0r 10^100, or 10^1000, or any other order of magnitude, and they are all, a priori, equally likely. Since our observable universe is 10^26 meters, it's unlikely that the correct number is between the 10^21 meters and 10^26 meters, since such a small range is too small to be statistically likely, as any larger order of magnitude is equally likely.

I hope that's clear, if not I can find the book and give it in Tegmark's words.
I have that book, and I don't care for his reasoning.  The implicit assumption here is that intelligent life is exceedingly rare.

Well, it might be.  Or, it might not be.

We don't know because we only have one data point to draw on: ourselves.  Trying to make assumptions based off of that is mathematically unwise.

What we observe is that at least one intelligent life form can arise in an area containing one hundred to four hundred billion stars because a) we are here and b) that's how many stars are around us, in our galaxy.  Call it an average of one in a quarter trillion, or 2.5x1011.

There are something on the order of 1023 stars in the universe.  So if it's an average of one intelligent life form per quarter trillion stars, and there are a hundred billion trillion stars, I come out of that with an average of four trillion intelligent life forms in the universe -- which, because of the vast nature of intergalactic distances, will probably never be in contact with each other.

Tegmark's mistake is assuming we're on the tapering end of the bell curve, when he should be assuming we're in the middle of it.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Online Sal1981

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2019, 07:45:53 PM »
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The variables in the Drake equation isn't based on anything tangible, as we have no data points to any of them other than just our own.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2019, 07:52:19 PM »
I don't have an equation, but I suspect there are none other than us, at least in our galaxy. I await observations, something better than Tabby's star.
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"Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is a child,"
Ecclesiastes 10:16
Or: Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is batshit crazy.

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2019, 09:32:32 PM »
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I don't have an equation, but I suspect there are none other than us, at least in our galaxy. I await observations, something better than Tabby's star.
You are just as right/wrong as anybody else making a SWAG.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2019, 10:09:37 PM »
The first radio broadcasts were in the early 20th century.  Prior to that how would anyone have known we were here even if they were listening?  Even now, the earliest weak radio signals can be no more than 110 light years from earth which means anyone outside that range has no chance of knowing we are here. 

Assuming that evolution follows the same basic path ( a rather large assumption!) that means that any society we could hope to contact would have to have reached roughly the same technological level as us at about the same time ( +/- 100 years.)  That's asking a lot.
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Online trdsf

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2019, 04:11:18 AM »
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The first radio broadcasts were in the early 20th century.  Prior to that how would anyone have known we were here even if they were listening?  Even now, the earliest weak radio signals can be no more than 110 light years from earth which means anyone outside that range has no chance of knowing we are here. 

Assuming that evolution follows the same basic path ( a rather large assumption!) that means that any society we could hope to contact would have to have reached roughly the same technological level as us at about the same time ( +/- 100 years.)  That's asking a lot.
Actually, assuming a technology capable of resolving Earth independently of our sun (perfectly plausible, we're very nearly to that point ourselves), the presence of a technological civilization here could be inferred out to a radius of about 200ly, give or take.  Spectrographic analysis would reveal pollutants in the atmosphere as the Industrial Revolution got going, and any ETI would be able to observe their growing concentration over time.

Few things in planetary astronomy say "Hey, something hinky's going on over here" as clearly as an unstable atmosphere does.  Chemistry is the same here, there and everywhere: there are no (known) plausible processes for maintaining a stable oxygen-rich atmosphere, nor do industrial pollutants resemble volcanic activity.

Of course, a 200ly radius sphere is a spit in the ocean compared to the size of this galaxy, and the odds of finding another intelligence within that radius are even more vanishingly small than the odds of finding another intelligence period.  There would need to be about five million ETIs in this galaxy to make that a 50/50 proposition, and I'd be surprised if the number is as high as five.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2019, 03:56:36 PM »
The 19th C. "industrial pollutants" were wood and coal smoke. Nothing technological about that, both had been around for a good long while.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2019, 04:24:41 PM »
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The 19th C. "industrial pollutants" were wood and coal smoke. Nothing technological about that, both had been around for a good long while.

Downtown Denver 109 years ago, due to coal burning, was a lot dirtier than today.  But now Denver covers a much larger area.  The initial objection to coal burning (which came about because of a shortage of wood to burn) was all the soot it produced.
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Online Hydra009

Re: This Image from Hubble Telescope Is Absolutely Mind Blowing
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2019, 12:09:46 AM »
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Actually, assuming a technology capable of resolving Earth independently of our sun (perfectly plausible, we're very nearly to that point ourselves), the presence of a technological civilization here could be inferred out to a radius of about 200ly, give or take.  Spectrographic analysis would reveal pollutants in the atmosphere as the Industrial Revolution got going, and any ETI would be able to observe their growing concentration over time.
True, but would they even necessarily know that much about the Earth?  Take our fairly recently-assembled catalogue of exoplanets.  How much do we know about any given planet?  Not a whole lot.  We know the star, the size of the planet, the number/size of its moons, maybe some tantalizing glimpses into its composition and habitability, that's pretty much it.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't know details like atmospheric carbon ppm.

Hell, one of our catalogued exoplanets could house a technologically advanced civilization and we might not have a clue about that yet.  Flip that picture, and that's where our alien observers might be at - looking at the Sol system, not really seeing anything too interesting, and looking elsewhere.

In a quasi catch-22, they're only likely to look closely if they know that there's something important here and they'd only know that if they already looked more closely.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 12:16:51 AM by Hydra009 »

 

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