Author Topic: How many GODS do you have?  (Read 13749 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #615 on: July 13, 2019, 12:46:49 PM »
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And now you have reverted to baby, it seems.  You don't know what my 'narrative' is.  But that doesn't matter to you since you use a constant line of drivel and babble.  Nuance doesn't exist for you--you don't see any gray areas; it's all black or white.  And it is always black in your view.

Hey!  You are older than me!  Show me your "depends" and I will show you mine ;-))

Yes, I identify as Ms Rachel Dolezal.  Black is Beautiful, baby!
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #616 on: July 13, 2019, 01:20:49 PM »
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it's all black or white. 

No, with Baruch there is only black, no white in evidence.
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"Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions."  Jerry Falwell
"Who says lying doesn't get you anywhere? Look at the success of Christianity!"  C. Spellman
"There is a sucker born-again every minute."  C. Spellman

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #617 on: July 13, 2019, 02:04:15 PM »
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No, with Baruch there is only black, no white in evidence.

So, a perfect Progressive then.  Wakanda y'all.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #618 on: July 13, 2019, 04:31:41 PM »
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You are merely ASSERTING that consciousness is an entity at all, let alone an abstract one. Consciousness is a process, because a consciousness that does not engage in cognition is not a consciousness, but unconsciousness. By analogy, the running of a car cannot exist without a car, yet it is as much an "abstract entity" as consciousness.
Most people aren't very intelligent, and that's the difference. I've been telling you for about THREE POSTS now that I do not accept your assertion that consciousness is an abstract entity or thing. It doesn't matter how much you repeat that ASSERTION, until you get around to proving that consciousness IS an entity, I and neuroscience in general still have good reason to think that the consciousness is what the brain does. And what the brain does is absolutely the perview of neuroscience.

It doesn't matter if you say neurologists don't study consciousness. They absolutely do.
Once again, I do no submit to your ASSERTION that consciousness is like the driver of a brain car. If you've seen Bay's Transformers, think Barricade β€” the Decepticon police cruiser. The "driver" you see "operating" Barricade is not the driver, but a hologram projected by Barricade to help in its disguise. Barricade is moving himself.

Consciousness is similar. Consciousness is not in any way analogous to the driver of the car, but more analogous to Barricade's driver hologram: the "driver" appears to be in control, but it's actually the car in control of the "driver." The consciousness appears to be in control of the brain, but the brain is fully in control and projecting the illusion of a consciousness as a controlling entity.
We are not in court. I'll call you whatever I want. Someone who cannot understand simple english has no right to tell me that anything I've said doesn't "make sense."
I don't care about your definition. You cannot prove that your consciousness "went anywhere," any more than my consciousness "goes anywhere" when I dream of Narnia.
There is no "to some, to others" nonsense. They are different types of death that someone can go through. Clinical death (heart stopping) is more properly called cardiac arrest, and it is recoverable. There's a distinct correleation between the brain dying and the person never recovering consciousness.
Too bad. People who verifiably go through NDEs always have quite intact brains. People whose brains are verifiably destroyed, don't have any verifiable NDE experiences.
No, YOU fail. When these people wake up and convey their experiences, are their brains silent and dead? No? Then their episode was obviously reversible. Remember that the ten minutes cited here is an empirical observation. It's the point where you start seeing progressive brain damage when you restore blood flow and revive the person. As the apoxia continues, the brain will deteriorate to the point where you can restore blood flow but the patient never exhibits brain function. THAT's brain death. If he's restored from apoxia and recovers some function, he's not brain dead, by definition.

So, you have not established that a brain is ever "totally lifeless." Dormant and in extremis? Yes. Dead? By definition, no.

Furthermore, even if you restore blood flow, it can take hours, even days, to regain consciousness. This is where you get NDEs lasting well over 10 minutes. Blood flow is restored, but the patient doesn't regain consciousness immediately like turning on a light. The brain is definitely working, albeit in a disorganized way, and only when that organizaion is restored is consciousness restored along with it.

So, no, you have not demonstrated that NDEs are anything other than what I say they are.
Again, mere assertion. These same people tend to have access to what happened during their episode by ordinary means. People talk. The hospital ER is not a controlled environment where you can FORCE people not to gab about the episode. In fact, talking to a comatose patient is encouraged not only under the theory that the best treatment for a disabled brain is stimulation, but also good therapy for friends and family.

This is definitely a channel by which a patient can assimilate information without woo, in addition to people gabbing after the patient has regained consciousness. The flow of information to the patient is not under any sort of control, and uncontrolled conditions make for poor data. Too poor to support an extraordinary claim like OOB experiences.

That's why you use the playing cards.

It's a piece of completely irrelevant information that is placed exactly where NDEs are reported to float above to give them the best chance of being seen if they were actually there. And, of course, they never seem to see it, even to wonder why the heck it's there. Not one of them wakes up to ask, "Incidently, can anyone tell me why there's a jack of spades up on that top shelf?"
Again, poor controls make for poor data. The controls on these cases are exceedingly poor and highly anecdotal. That's why we performed the test. The test imposed controls on a particular piece of information that only an OOBer would have access to. Yet, they fail on this very simple test. Are NDEs so incurious that not one of them wonders why the heck there was a playing card on a shelf? Tosh.

Like every other form of paranormal, it fails under a simple test with modest controls. This is the track record of every other discarded hypothesis. I would be inconsistent to not dismiss this phenomenon that runs away from verification as I did every other.
Stop appealing to preserving my pweschous fwee will. We mere humans try to pursuade each other all the time, in exactly the way we're doing with each other now. Yet nobody thinks that we're undermining each other's free will. To think that a God couldn't contain himself in this manner is simply ridiculous.
You have yet to prove that consciousness is not under the perview of neuroscience; that it's not what the brain does, the same way Barricade presents the illusion of a car with a driver even though it's only the Decepticon.

Ponder that.
 

You have not. You don't give ANY evidence at all that you have a genuine consciousness rather than a sham one. All you have done is asserted that you do. Sorry, a preprogrammed automaton can do that.
Wouldn't God have an interest in using NDEs to try to prove both the supernatural and himself? Establishing that a channel of communication can be relied upon is step one of communication. A God that doesn't understand this... is dumb.
You have yet to prove that there is a God to experience.
A God should be perfectly capable of showing that there is something beyond the material to be considered in a complete wordview. So far, all the evidence has been found wanting. That's not our fault. A world with supernatural content that presents itself to every reliable means of verification as only material is indistinguishable from one that is only material, and a supernatural so unwilling to present itself to verification is also one that is irrelevant. Material concerns makes itself felt in every aspect in our lives. Immaterial ones, not so much.
There is no evolutionary advantage to a consciousness that is permanent after death. It doesn't help the differential survival of an organism's genes. Evolution has no handle on making a consciousness permanet and able to survive death.
Again, consider Barricade. Once more, you have yet to establish that consciousness is a separate thing from the brain. You need ot do that before your driver and car example will have any force.
Of course a logical ignoramous like you would consider it meaningless.
Do you need to be fed all the time, twenty-four/seven? I hope this answer is no.
I know how entropy works, and it doesn't work this way. Entropy takes time to increase, and therefore it can take some time to reach equilibrium and heat death. Your proof is invalid.
Just because you think that the differences are astronomic doesn't mean that they are. They are in fact quite similar in one respect that is very important: they all contain unverifiable tripe.
Then your God is dumb. I can think of a dozen different ways right off the bat for hiding evidence that Jesus performed miracles, so I'm smarter than your God.
Like most of your tripe, mere assertion.
You did not answer in any satisfactory way.
Evolution is purely a process founded in materialistic physics. There is no other evolution than physical. To assert that consciousness was evolved is to admit that consciousness is a physical phenomenon and not woo.
Yes, and I will go to hell if I don't believe in Jesus Christ. /sarcasm You have a hard time not making your spiel sound like a con. Either do better in making it sound actually intellectually respectable, or give up.
It's happened to me. I snipped into my left hand with a pair of scissors one time, and I didn't feel pain as such. It was a deep snip, too, into the subcutaneous. I washed it out and wrapped it well, and only then did the pain start. So don't tell me what I can and can't do.

Any one who can handle that many separate quotes gets my vote.  And yes those were great arguments too...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #619 on: July 14, 2019, 11:05:53 AM »
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And now you have reverted to baby, it seems.  You don't know what my 'narrative' is.  But that doesn't matter to you since you use a constant line of drivel and babble.  Nuance doesn't exist for you--you don't see any gray areas; it's all black or white.  And it is always black in your view.

In actuality, this is just my "rhetorical" form.  As a demi-god, I have more than one manifestation.  In person, as my "coffee klatch" form, I am rhetoric free.  You would probably like that form better.  Or be terrified.  Heute dein Kaffeekuchen, morgen ... I scared a new friend once, while we shared supper.  I got a new supernatural insight about a past experience, and told him about it ... must have been the eyes going round and round that upset him ...
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #620 on: July 14, 2019, 12:45:14 PM »
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In actuality, this is just my "rhetorical" form.  As a demi-god, I have more than one manifestation.  In person, as my "coffee klatch" form, I am rhetoric free.  You would probably like that form better.  Or be terrified.  Heute dein Kaffeekuchen, morgen ... I scared a new friend once, while we shared supper.  I got a new supernatural insight about a past experience, and told him about it ... must have been the eyes going round and round that upset him ...
Most likely.  Seems to me your 'demi-god' thing simply allows you to lie and spew fictions at your leisure.  And it is a handy shield for the 'real' you to hide behind.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #621 on: July 14, 2019, 02:43:25 PM »
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Most likely.  Seems to me your 'demi-god' thing simply allows you to lie and spew fictions at your leisure.  And it is a handy shield for the 'real' you to hide behind.

The supernatural me is the real me.  The natural me is the conventional me.  Following convention isn't a fiction, it simply is avoiding misunderstanding.  Like a nudist who wears regular clothes in polite society ;-0
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #622 on: July 14, 2019, 04:13:18 PM »
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Most likely.  Seems to me your 'demi-god' thing simply allows you to lie and spew fictions at your leisure.  And it is a handy shield for the 'real' you to hide behind.

"your 'demi-god' troll thing simply allows you to lie and spew fictions at your leisure."

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #623 on: July 14, 2019, 05:04:18 PM »
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The supernatural me is the real me.  The natural me is the conventional me.  Following convention isn't a fiction, it simply is avoiding misunderstanding.  Like a nudist who wears regular clothes in polite society ;-0
Since there is no supernatural you can claim it is the real you.  It is a fiction that allows you use the 'supernatural' as a shield to hide behind.  It is not like nudism at all; nudism is real and easily demonstrated, there is no fiction in it.  You with clothes is the same as you without clothes, only with or without something covering your body. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #624 on: July 14, 2019, 11:03:13 PM »
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"your 'demi-god' troll thing simply allows you to lie and spew fictions at your leisure."

Meme is where it is at, grandpa ;-)
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #625 on: July 14, 2019, 11:04:28 PM »
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Since there is no supernatural you can claim it is the real you.  It is a fiction that allows you use the 'supernatural' as a shield to hide behind.  It is not like nudism at all; nudism is real and easily demonstrated, there is no fiction in it.  You with clothes is the same as you without clothes, only with or without something covering your body.

Since there is no natural, you can claim it is the real you.  So, you random cloud of atoms ... what justification can you make for your posts?  Hmmm?

So, the usual outrage.  No sense of humor on a Sunday evening?
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #626 on: July 14, 2019, 11:31:16 PM »
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Since there is no natural, you can claim it is the real you.  So, you random cloud of atoms ... what justification can you make for your posts?  Hmmm?

So, the usual outrage.  No sense of humor on a Sunday evening?
Outrage??  :)) Hardly--you give yourself too much credit.  I merely make note of your typical crap.   
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #627 on: July 14, 2019, 11:43:22 PM »
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Outrage??  :)) Hardly--you give yourself too much credit.  I merely make note of your typical crap.

And I take note, thru clairvoyance, of your elevated blood pressure.  I hope you are seeing someone about that.  Or go watch some comedy, to reacquire some balance.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #628 on: July 16, 2019, 06:44:55 AM »
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Any one who can handle that many separate quotes gets my vote.  And yes those were great arguments too...


The quantity does not always equal to quality and this is a clear example of it.

When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #629 on: July 16, 2019, 06:51:26 AM »
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Outrage??  :)) Hardly--you give yourself too much credit.  I merely make note of your typical crap.


The forum is all about trying to make a point Mike and in order to make a point you need to knock down the opposite argument with something that make sense which is something that you often fail to do.

There is no point in saying that somebody else is crap unless you come up with a way to win the argument.
When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

 

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