Author Topic: How many GODS do you have?  (Read 6648 times)

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #600 on: July 11, 2019, 07:37:08 PM »
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Yeah, total waste of time and energy. I still wonder why they come here to try to convince us that their world view makes more sense than does ours'. If thay had any actual arguments instead of just argument by assertion it might be more interesting, at least.
I wonder that as well.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #601 on: July 11, 2019, 09:20:34 PM »
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Which is why reasoning with a theist, especially one as thick headed as Arik, will never work.

I am a tough act to follow, but Arik is trying ;-)
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #602 on: July 11, 2019, 09:25:01 PM »
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I am a tough act to follow, but Arik is trying ;-)
Yeah, he is VERY trying.  Basically because he is so stupid and he revels in his stupidity and thinks it is intelligence. 

You, on the other hand, are familiar with facts and are not afraid of study.  But you still believe in a fiction.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #603 on: July 11, 2019, 10:12:11 PM »
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Yeah, he is VERY trying.  Basically because he is so stupid and he revels in his stupidity and thinks it is intelligence. 

You, on the other hand, are familiar with facts and are not afraid of study.  But you still believe in a fiction.

You still think that Hillary won the election ;-)  CIA/FBI say otherwise.

I wouldn't expect folks here to give credence to metaphysics.  Well, physics is less fictional than metaphysics.  But also less interesting.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #604 on: July 11, 2019, 11:08:58 PM »
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You still think that Hillary won the election ;-)  CIA/FBI say otherwise.

I wouldn't expect folks here to give credence to metaphysics.  Well, physics is less fictional than metaphysics.  But also less interesting.
I still think she got the most votes.  The Electoral College gave it to trump.  And I find actual, real physics to much more interesting than metaphysics. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #605 on: July 12, 2019, 12:29:07 AM »
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I still think she got the most votes.  The Electoral College gave it to trump.  And I find actual, real physics to much more interesting than metaphysics.

Typical materialist.  Keep it up chucklehead (sincerely).  No, if the CIA/FBI says you aren't the President, then you aren't.  Rank and file CIA/FBI said Trump won, whereas their leadership said Hillary won.  The leadership lost that argument around October 2016 as I recall (near revolt in NYC FBI office over Weiner laptop contents).  Prove me wrong.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #606 on: July 12, 2019, 10:12:47 AM »
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Yeah, total waste of time and energy. I still wonder why they come here to try to convince us that their world view makes more sense than does ours'. If thay had any actual arguments instead of just argument by assertion it might be more interesting, at least.


1) I go in the atheists forums not because I try to convince people but rather because I do like the challenge.
If I would go in a yoga forum I wouldn't find any challenge because everybody would agree with me beside I do not try to teach religions.

2) As far as the assertion you should remember that for every assertion that I do make Atheists make 10 or more assertions.
Have you already forgot my 10 points with the Atheists assertions which of course are totally void of any evidence?


 
When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #607 on: July 12, 2019, 11:44:47 AM »
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In the end, it's all just shallowness. In the end, it's just assertions after assertions. In the end, it's all simplistic thinking.

(I've shuffled around parts of your response.)

Arik, you think that NDEs form at the time that the person remembers them being about β€” that if the person has a memory of a NDE with him in cardiac arrest, then the memory has to be formed at that time. Simplistic thinking, and contradicted by evidence from psychology. The entire satanic panic scare, with "recovered memories", is known to have come about from false memories about childhood abuse and rituals being planted during therapy sessions in adulthood. Memories don't come with timestamps. If counterfeit memories of one's childhood can have their origins in events decades later, then why is it so difficult to believe that NDEs ostensibly about a time when their brain couldn't be working can too have their actual origin in a time mere hours later when full blood flow is restored and the brain begins sorting itself out? False memories about a time prior to their actual formation is a known phenomenon. We know that it happens. We've even induced false memories in experiments. I don't need any woo to explain NDEs; this explains everything we can actually observe about NDEs, including that they never seem to see the out-of-sight cards we hid.

Human memory is terrible. It shows itself to be such every time we have tested it under controlled conditions. It is bizarre to think that it will suddenly become reliable when we enter regimes when we cannot verify it.
No they aren't. NDEs are only known after the fact, after which all the details of the episode are only remembered and all the psychology of faulty memory attaches. If the details of an NDE cannot be verified using a reliable source (like a CCTV recording), then the fact that they remember some detail is not actually indicative of anything.
This is a lie, because the actual diagnosis of "brain death" is confirmed later, sometimes after days of testing and observation. It's not simply a single flatline on an EEG. That's simplistic thinking. You have to show an extended period of no electrical activity in the brain to be declared brain dead, sometimes confirmed with a wide battery of different tests, and we have no instance of someone coming back from such a deep abyss.



How strange Haku that all these thousand of people experience God rather than father Christmas.
And what about doctors that are so ignorants that do not know anything about real death.
All those years studying medicine wasted.
They should have listen to you instead and your psychology that suppose to be the real McCoy.  :shocked:


Quote
Simplistic thinking also plagues your thinking about karatekas and hooked gurus. The defects in the former can be summed up with the simple observation that you can break someone's nose without breaking your own fist, when of course they're made of much the same stuff. Mechanics is more complicated than "stone beats fist." As for the hooked gurus, the body is very good at keeping blood where it belongs. It's also very good at healing superficial injuries. These gurus make very specific injuries to themselves; you will not see a single one stick a hook through their abdominal wall and rip through their rectus adominia (the "6-pack") to demonstrate their craft, and there's probably a good reason for that. Biofeedback doesn't take that long to learn, and given that biofeedback is being explored and (at this point) may be clinically used to treat chronic pain, the notion that it won't be able to blot out the pain of a couple of hooks in your skin is not credible.
No. YOUR problem is that you assert a lot but don't do nearly enough to justify it. I am telling you a lot about what it would take to actually convince me of what you say, but instead of going out and getting the kind of evidence that I require to be convinced, you instead bull right ahead and present the same old bad evidence you've done since the start of this thread. You can pile up as much bad evidence as you want in front of me, but it won't stop being bad evidence because of its volume.

I told you exactly what I needed to consider those hooked gurus to having extraordinary powers, which was a medical examination to verify that what you claim about them are actually medically impossible, but you never did it. And no, I'm not going to consider it a serious proposition until you present me evidence that indicates that there is something TO be serious about.


Those gurus and those karatekas must be there to make money out of breaking slab of concrete with their head and inserting hooks in their flesh isn't it?
Gee, I never thought about that Haku.



Quote
I don't need anything more than the vaguarities of human memory to explain NDEs, and as such, NDEs do not "clearly" show that there's a master mind that should be our only attachment. And nothing I appeal to is an ad hoc explanation either: we've induced all the needed components in experiments. We've implanted false details into memories of an incident experienced by a large group of people, and changed each and every one of those accounts to include those false details. We have implanted false childhood memories into adults. Certainty and clarity of a memory is not correlated to their accuracy. And so on, and because NDEs are explainable by material means, Occam's razor demands that I cut out the unevidenced elements including woo.

Explainable by material means?

Where, when, how.............

So why God  rather than father Christmas is involved?



Quote
The rest are merely "just so" stories. Like the following:This is a simplistic, "just so" answer. Why would your life be misery just because in a past life you killed another? It didn't seem to bother you last time around. Or if it did, it's something you can get past, just like almost every soldier fighting in every war ever. The human mind is nothing if not adaptable. Some trauma might need a reset (PTSD), but being able to remember your past lives and correlate them to your fortune in successive lives seems to me a useful thing.

You're presenting me a telos to forgetting, but the telos doesn't make sense.



1) Oh, I see......

So according to you killing an enemy during a war is the same as to kill someone for hatred in a non war situation?

I can't believe how asinine you are.


2) The human mind is nothing if not adaptable?
Oh, sure that means that all mental institution are full of sane people isn't it Haku?



Quote
Or what about this?How can you keep from acquiring bad karma if you don't know what causes bad karma? How can you acquire good karma if you don't know what causes good karma? The fact that we don't choose correctly the first time, every time, is strong indication that such things would have to be learned. And if such things existed, I would be very surprised if good and bad karma always line up with what we consider good and bad deeds. Until you can point a karma meter at someone and observe the rise of good karma with a good deed, "getting good karma" means nothing more than doing good deeds.
Something which you can't observe/measure. You still can't predict who gets the good fortune and who gets the shaft. Until you can point a karma meter at me and measure my good and bad karma, you are using nonsense to justify nonsense. It's a "just so" story.


In the beginning when you (anyone) kill animals or even people you feel quite bad and remorse within but after sometime it come natural and the bad feeling is gone.
Humans get used to good or bad that however doesn't means that karma doesn't work on you just because to you doing certain things become normal.
Karma doesn't work on the physical level so there could not exist a physical meter to show you anything.
I personally wouldn't take any risk in gambling about actions that may give rise to the level of karma.
You of course are free to take risks that is your life and your choice.


Quote
Here's another "just so" story, that I'm closed minded:You suppose that but for the presence of an immaterial consciousness, the brain would be silent and dead, and it is under the direction of a consciousness that a living body is guided towards action. That by definition is a physical effect. You've already given up the fight that what you are talking about is a physical effect, and if a phenomenon has some physical effects, it likely has others.
You have given no evidence that there is anything to be interested in. In fact, you've given no indication that you understand any of what you speak of.



Are you that fool to believe that the vehicle is able to tell the driver what to do?



Quote
You seem to think that I don't accept your "just so" stories because I'm somehow prejudiced against them because they're woo. Not so. I reject them because it's obvious that you haven't thought about them deeply enough. Like your "consciousness evolution" malarkey. I reject it not because it's not biological evolution, but rather you've given me NOTHING. You've given no mechanism of how it works to improve consciousness, why it selects out this avenue of improvement and not another, or what the mechanism is acting on in consciousness to improve it. I can use my understanding of biological evolution to look at a biological scenario and say, "Oh, yeah. It would do that." I can't do similarly with your "consciousness evolution." Instead, I just get vague assurances that it leads to an ill-defined improvement in consciousness β€” a "just so" story.



Again Haku.

This is similar to the previous comment in which you think that the vehicle is able to tell the driver what to do.
How can a biological change be able to change the consciousness in humans?
Are you that dumb that can't understand that is the other way around?



Quote
Nirvana fallacy.


Fallacy?

I did prove that education has little impact on morality.
There are people with no education that have more morality than those with more education.


Quote
Wrong. We see their equivalents everywhere. It's bizarre to expect gun lovers in cultures without guns, but every human tribe has created weapons. Chieftains throughout history have used said weapons to increase their personal wealth. Career soldiers have existed in every large society, and hatred has been expressed by every culture. As to having more of these than in the past, you made that up.


I never talk about the past or the present.
You do.
Killing for survival is not the same as to kill for hatred.
There is nothing wrong with carring a gun but there is a lot of wrong if you carry a gun in order to wish to kill for hatred or for killing animals for the so called sport.


Quote
I'm not here to teach you. You have shown remarkable ability to employ that protective sloped forehead of yours. What I've shown is that you don't have anything to teach anyone. You didn't demonstrate what you wished to, that any of what you proposed as elemental was actually an elemental part of the universe, rather than emergent from other things. Hence, this is actually your failure.
Because you say so.


Actually everything is emergent from the very initial form of creation but at the same time all those fundamental factors have their own status until they change.
Even physical science say that one form of energy change into a different form of energy, so what?
An element is such until it change.


Quote
You have not demonstrated any rudimentary consciousness at all. Demonstrate they do, and then you get to say that they have rudimentary consciousness not the same as humans.



Science is coming up more and more with studies that say that even plants suffer when they are uprooted or damaged.
That clearly indicate that some form of consciousness is there regardless the lack of a nervous system.

Quote
So, do you have anything at all, other than your bad evidence of NDEs, karatekas, or hooked gurus to present, or your "just so" stories without any grounding in anything we can measure?



Stories?
How can you talk about stories when you have still to provide real evidence about my 10 Atheists points?



When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #608 on: July 12, 2019, 01:26:15 PM »
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Have you already forgot my 10 points with the Atheists assertions which of course are totally void of any evidence?

Forgot about them? No, I didn't waste my time reading that drivel.
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"Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is a child,"
Ecclesiastes 10:16
Or: Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is batshit crazy.

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #609 on: July 12, 2019, 02:17:25 PM »
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Forgot about them? No, I didn't waste my time reading that drivel.

You need to spend more time, contemplating your navel ;-)

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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #610 on: July 12, 2019, 06:40:02 PM »
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Typical materialist.  Keep it up chucklehead (sincerely).  No, if the CIA/FBI says you aren't the President, then you aren't.  Rank and file CIA/FBI said Trump won, whereas their leadership said Hillary won.  The leadership lost that argument around October 2016 as I recall (near revolt in NYC FBI office over Weiner laptop contents).  Prove me wrong.

Prove you wrong! :))  Not possible.  As a confirmed believer in conspiracies you cannot be swayed by facts--unless you are dealing with ancient Jewish history; and as a theist you are a confirmed believer in all sorts of fantasies.  You will persist in your muddled beliefs no matter what I say or how I say it.   
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #611 on: July 13, 2019, 01:47:20 AM »
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Prove you wrong! :))  Not possible.  As a confirmed believer in conspiracies you cannot be swayed by facts--unless you are dealing with ancient Jewish history; and as a theist you are a confirmed believer in all sorts of fantasies.  You will persist in your muddled beliefs no matter what I say or how I say it.

Parties, candidates, elections, voters ... that is the conspiracy.  And it isn't a theory.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #612 on: July 13, 2019, 09:10:16 AM »
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Parties, candidates, elections, voters ... that is the conspiracy.  And it isn't a theory.
I know it isn't a theory--your conspiracies are only a hypothesis (at best) with no proof at all--hence, not a theory; no proof.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #613 on: July 13, 2019, 11:06:08 AM »
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I know it isn't a theory--your conspiracies are only a hypothesis (at best) with no proof at all--hence, not a theory; no proof.

Your acceptance of the Narrative (aka BS) is a nothing-burger.  That is what culture does to all of us.  Total brainwashing is required to turn a baby into an adult.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 11:21:39 AM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #614 on: July 13, 2019, 12:36:54 PM »
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Your acceptance of the Narrative (aka BS) is a nothing-burger.  That is what culture does to all of us.  Total brainwashing is required to turn a baby into an adult.
And now you have reverted to baby, it seems.  You don't know what my 'narrative' is.  But that doesn't matter to you since you use a constant line of drivel and babble.  Nuance doesn't exist for you--you don't see any gray areas; it's all black or white.  And it is always black in your view.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

 

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