How many GODS do you have?

[Unbeliever]

Here are some crickets for you:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP6JGlv32nw

[Arik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIdPo-soklY


Yep, that's how I see it.

The 5 fundamental elements that compose the universe (space, air, light-energy, water and matter are just the most primitive and rudimental factor so their consciousness is next to zero.

How can such a limited form of consciousness that by the way will take millions of years to evolve to our human level be able to have much influence on us humans?

If you really want to understand how the whole system works you should look a lot higher than that but I suppose that it will take some more time before you realize who really run the entire system.

[Mike Cl]

The 5 fundamental elements that compose the universe (space, air, light-energy, water and matter are just the most primitive and rudimental factor so their consciousness is next to zero.

How can such a limited form of consciousness that by the way will take millions of years to evolve to our human level be able to have much influence on us humans?

If you really want to understand how the whole system works you should look a lot higher than that but I suppose that it will take some more time before you realize who really run the entire system.

This should be posted everywhere and labeled for what it is:  The credo of the stupid, willfully ignorant and blind; in other words, theists everywhere. 

[Hakurei Reimu]

The 5 fundamental elements that compose the universe (space, air, light-energy, water and matter are just the most primitive and rudimental factor so their consciousness is next to zero.

Water is composed of hydrogen and oxygen, and is not an element in any meaningful sense of the word. Air is composed of a mixture of chemcials, and is not an element either. Energy isn't a thing at all, let alone an element. Space isn't it's own thing, being intimately tangled with time, and matter is a catch-all for the material particles that makes up stuff we can hold.

It is statements like this that makes you look like an ignoramus. The twenty six elementary particles (12 fermions, 4 electroweak bosons, 8 gluons, the graviton and the Higgs boson) are the only ones we know so far to be truly indivisible. So far. You also present no reason why such things should have no consciousness except your say so.

How can such a limited form of consciousness that by the way will take millions of years to evolve to our human level be able to have much influence on us humans?

So far, the only reason you give for this is because of your say so.

If you really want to understand how the whole system works you should look a lot higher than that but I suppose that it will take some more time before you realize who really run the entire system.

Because obviously we should take the word of someone who is ignorant enough to tell us air and water are elements of the universe (even though they aren't to any experimental rigor). My philosophy professor always told us, "Science is true, even in philosophy class." The moral of the story, if science doesn't jive with your philosophy, then it's your philosophy that is at fault, not the science.

[Arik]

Stop.

Knowledge is about things. Unless knowledge is about something external to itself, it ceases to be meaningful and as such is not knowledge. There is no such thing as knowledge that exists in a complete vacuum. Knowledge must refer to something to even be knowledge. Thus, it is a complete and utter absurdity for knowledge to come "from within" because the entire point of it is to refer to things without. If you have an idea that is unverified, it is not knowledge, period. It only becomes knowledge when you link that idea to some externality.

As such, knowledge can ONLY come from without because it is the external connection that makes an idea knowledge.

Einstein's General Relativity would only be a neat idea, and not knowledge, if it could never be linked to and verified by observing the universe that it is clearly about.
I don't need much engineering knowledge to be your superior in that account. You don't give the human body nearly enough credit. The human body is a thing honed through 3.5 billion years of evolution, since it's distant single celled ancestor. It has a lot of tricks up its sleeve. One of its tricks is being able to remodel itself in response to stress.

Stop there Haku.

All your limited knowledge (unfortunately for you) relate to this physical dimension and that is very sad.
Love is not only physical.
In fact the best form of love is mental and spiritual.
The fact that you never experience this form of love make you believe that love is mainly physical.
That is your problem Haku 

So because the best form of love is not physical all your point that knowledge is external is just a load of rubbish.

I very much doubt that your breaking bricks videos are the very first time these martial artists have slammed their fists, feet and heads into something to break it. There was very much failed attempts to do so, resulting in injuries. But when the injuries healed, the body built it a bit tougher since it seemed to be getting unusually stressed.
The pain bit is easy. Pain exists in the head. Your brain has natural chemicals that modulate the feeling of pain, called endorphins. It is not a great stretch to theorize that the gurus who do this are ignoring the pain through biofeedback. This is not "a story," but verified, real science.


Second, callus and scar tissue are not "a story." Again, if you insult a point on your body, it tends to respond by remodeling itself, and one of the characteristics of scar tissue is a relative derth of blood vessels. Your source would not be witnessing a green guru poking themselves for the first time. It would be a seasoned guru who already knows where and how to stab himself to do this trick. Furthermore, blood isn't just going to sit there and wait for the hooks to be pulled out. The clotting process starts immediately. So, if you leave the hooks in for long enough, all the severed blood vessels will be sealed off by the time you extract the hooks, explaining the lack of blood from the few blood vessels left.

As to "closing as soon as the hook is removed?" Unverified story. To my knowledge no medical examination has revealed that these holes actually close without a trace, and given the lack of sources to said medical examinations, you don't either. I don't need to explain what is not evident.
Funny, all you have are story after story and unverified BS.
Which shows just how much of an ignoramous you are. Water is incompressible. Thus, when you smack it down (as it would when your fist contacts a slab), that force is spread out over the entirety of its container instead of just in the direction of force. Skin being springy means that it will give a bit when stressed. But force over displacement is energy, which means that springy flesh will absorb more energy than brittle stone before breaking.

And again, instead of finding out the mechanical details, you simply shit on my explanation. But even if it is bogus, it's still an EXPLANATION, using verified physical principles. The dirty little secret of your immaterial is that it doesn't help you explain why martial artists can do their feats, nor how gurus are able to hook themselves without apparent pain, nor NDEs. You simply think it's an explanation.

More garbage Haku.

New or old make no difference at all.
If you would see these Hindu festival in action you would see a lot of young people who never been to these festival and never insert hooks in their flesh before yet they do not feel any pain and the hole close as soon as the hooks are removed.
Just go and see like I did and then tell me.

For all you complain about my bullshit, you spew a lot of your own. This is all unverified bullshit and ad hoc explanation. It also contradicts your notion that Beethoven got gud from experiences from previous lives. Beethoven is brilliant because of experiences in his past lives; but now you have it that they can't remember their past lives. Well, if they can't remember their past lives, then as far as NDEing consciousness is concerned, this is still the only life they get, so there's no compelling reason for them to go to the hereafter.

Life is not only made of good experiences.
Bad experiences are there as well.
In any case good or bad experiences should not be remembered for a good reason but what we achieved in previous lives can not be taken away from us that is why although we do not remember our good and bad experiences we still have the right to keep our baggage of progress or regress.

No wonder that someone born in a positive situation and other born in a bad one.
One born physically healthy and somebody else born weak or die soon after or is killed in terrible circumstances.
Someone else born looking good and other born looking ugly.

It is all about our previous lives.
About our desires and about our good or bad karma.
This is my belief but of course you can believe what you like.

There is no operational difference between your above tripe and the materialistic explanation that sometimes the brain is too far gone to recover. And being far gone is a concern in your immaterialistic world as well, given your car analogy.
You have steadfastly refused to define any other. Why should I even think your evolution is a thing if you're so cagey about it?

It make sense that someone born in a positive situation while somebody else must experience the contrary.
Your view is only based on a materialist belief that doesn't make an inch of sense.

Do you have ANY direct evidence for your consciousness as a thing existing as a separate entity? And yes, there should be because your consciousness manifestly interferes with the real world according to you. You cannot see unless you are able to interact with photons. You cannot hear unless you are able to interact with air vibrations. And your NDE consciousnesses are able to see and hear.

When you are "CAGED" in a physical body there is a limit to what you can or can not do but when your consciousness (YOU) is free from such a constraint as seen in the thousand of NDEs then the music change.
By being caged you are stuck with your body and brain and obviously you rely on them to think and do things.

So? Nobody has owned an entire planet, lock stock and barrel.
Unverifiable bullshit. You have not excluded truly obscene amount of material wealth, and furthermore, you have not explained people who are, actually, perfectly comfortable with their life. Your "positive and negative" do not exist except in very restricted contexts unconnected with the satisfaction of human beings.
That's perfectly explainable by the fact that there is a continuity of culture that is able to teach young people their past as to not repeat it.
Unverified tripe, because if it weren't true, we would still be very similar to each other just through the fact that we're human and stem from the same ancestors.
Usually, that's the line of someone with no case. "God will reveal himself to you!" Boy, haven't I heard that often enough before.

A lot of guessing and no substance.

As soon as you have reached up a particular material of physical goal in your life you feel quite satisfied and that is quite natural.
What is not natural however is that that satisfaction does not last very long indeed.
After a while new goals pop up in your mind and in a never end of goal to achieve and you find yourself once again not fully satisfied that is why I try to tell you that because the positive is ALWAYS annulled by the negative fully satisfaction in this physical dimension is a big big illusion.

At the end, all you have is unverified tripe and empty rhetoric. Demonstrate your immaterial with some sort of direct measurement of a disembodied consciousness and you'd have an actual case. So far, all I see is confidence. Well, that and a dollar will get you a Snickers ad the local K-mart.

At least my beliefs make sense while yours do not.
If you can come up with a logical explanation why someone born in a positive situation while other can not or where our consciousness come from then I will bow to your superiority.
In the meantime I regard all your beliefs as a load of guessing of the worse kind.

Have a good day anyway. 

[Arik]

Water is composed of hydrogen and oxygen, and is not an element in any meaningful sense of the word. Air is composed of a mixture of chemcials, and is not an element either. Energy isn't a thing at all, let alone an element. Space isn't it's own thing, being intimately tangled with time, and matter is a catch-all for the material particles that makes up stuff we can hold.

It is statements like this that makes you look like an ignoramus. The twenty six elementary particles (12 fermions, 4 electroweak bosons, 8 gluons, the graviton and the Higgs boson) are the only ones we know so far to be truly indivisible.


So far. You also present no reason why such things should have no consciousness except your say so.
So far, the only reason you give for this is because of your say so.
Because obviously we should take the word of someone who is ignorant enough to tell us air and water are elements of the universe (even though they aren't to any experimental rigor). My philosophy professor always told us, "Science is true, even in philosophy class." The moral of the story, if science doesn't jive with your philosophy, then it's your philosophy that is at fault, not the science.

Element.
6)..........one of the substances, usually earth, water, air, and fire, formerly regarded as constituting the material universe.


https://www.dictionary.com/browse/element



By the way I never said that.............. such things should have no consciousness ..............

I instead said that these ELEMENTS have a primitive and rudimental form of consciousness so consciousness is there anyway.
What is not there is a developed form of consciousness able to have much influence on us humans.

[Simon Moon]

So...

39 pages, and 575 posts, and I still do not have any "gods".

[Hakurei Reimu]

The fact that you never experience this form of love make you believe that love is mainly physical.
That is your problem Haku 

So because the best form of love is not physical all your point that knowledge is external is just a load of rubbish.

No. That doesn't fly. You are now equivocating "physical" with "carnal." That's a fallacy. You still only know that someone loves you by their behavior towards you. If you have a partner who is raping you and causing you mental torture, it is quite evident that he doesn't love you. You didn't come by this knowledge from looking within, or any such rubbish; you came by it by observing his behavior towards you and finding it at odds with the proposition that he loves you. Knowledge of his lack of love for you still comes from without.

Fail.

More garbage Haku.

New or old make no difference at all.
If you would see these Hindu festival in action you would see a lot of young people who never been to these festival and never insert hooks in their flesh before yet they do not feel any pain and the hole close as soon as the hooks are removed.
Just go and see like I did and then tell me.

"Seasoned" doesn't mean "withered old prune," you moron. How would you know that any of those young people have never had hooks inserted into them before? Did you track them all their life to determine that, like a creepy stalker? In fact, I believe that this above story you're telling is made up out of whole cloth. Show documentation for this, or STFU.

Life is not only made of good experiences.
Bad experiences are there as well.

No. Stop right there. The notion that an NDEing consciousness would not want to see their family again, even if they have to go through pain to do so, is simply unfathomable, and really doesn't say much for your lot in life.

In any case good or bad experiences should not be remembered for a good reason but what we achieved in previous lives can not be taken away from us that is why although we do not remember our good and bad experiences we still have the right to keep our baggage of progress or regress.

No wonder that someone born in a positive situation and other born in a bad one.
One born physically healthy and somebody else born weak or die soon after or is killed in terrible circumstances.
Someone else born looking good and other born looking ugly.

It is all about our previous lives.
About our desires and about our good or bad karma.
This is my belief but of course you can believe what you like.

Why would I believe it? You still have yet to give any foundation for this belief other than, apparently, the alternative is too terrifying to contemplate. Good and bad karma must be a thing, else evil people who die well don't get their comeuppance and people born into a poor situation and health do not deserve anything for their suffering â€" as if the universe owes you a fucking thing.

See, the above story you tell yourself is not one you tell yourself because of some knowledge or evolution on a part of consciousness, but rather the satisfaction of your most primitive need to see that fairness is done in an unfair world. And even then, it still doesn't work. What use is punishing a consciousness that doesn't remember what it did to deserve it? What's there to learn? How does that consciousness correct itself, without knowing what lead up to making a bad decision the first time around? And what use is teaching the moral lesson only to forget it the next time around? It doesn't make a lick of sense. The Buddhists at least identified that this scenario is just madness.

Furthermore, how do you know it's the GOOD consciousnesses that get the good hands in life? Maybe Beethoven outright stole all the ideas he used to use in his symphonies when he reincarnated. Maybe I should sue.

It make sense that someone born in a positive situation while somebody else must experience the contrary.

That sounds like randomness, not evolution. There's no experiences carried forward to give any of this positiveness or negativeness any sort of context. Reincarnation doesn't have any use unless you remember what happened the last time so you don't repeat your mistakes. Without experiences, we're not even sure that the right people are getting punished this time around.

For as long as man has existed on this planet, for countless generations, the great majority of us have wollowed around in the mud, living and dying terrible lives. You'd think that if this reincarnation shit had any use, then you would see continual improvement in the lot of people's lives without materialistic intervention. But you don't. The most improvement we see comes through education and easing the material needs of the most destitute.

Your view is only based on a materialist belief that doesn't make an inch of sense.

I like it how you blame my worldview and not yours. No, dearheart, you're failing to explain your worldview to me, because you don't understand it yourself.

When you are "CAGED" in a physical body there is a limit to what you can or can not do but when your consciousness (YOU) is free from such a constraint as seen in the thousand of NDEs then the music change.
By being caged you are stuck with your body and brain and obviously you rely on them to think and do things.

That doesn't answer my question. Manifestly, your NDEs (supposedly) see and hear outside their body. That's why they're (supposedly) able to share accounts other than being in darkness and silence. Sight IS photon information. Hearing IS air vibration information. That requires them to interact with photons and air vibrations, which means they would, in fact, have physical presence. There must be interactions with physical matter or consciousness couldn't be caged at all. Period.

So, again, do you have ANY direct evidence for your consciousness as a thing existing as a separate entity? Otherwise, you are relying on the most unreliable form of evidence known to man to establish your NDEs, which barely works in a courtroom and never in science.

A lot of guessing and no substance.

Like you're in any better position. Your position is all guessing and no substance. How do you know that your feelings of bliss condition is even possible for us, given that you have rejected my counterexample? How do you know we aren't playthings to the gods and it is our lot to suffer? How do you know that we aren't just fundamentally broken and we are simply incapable of the kind of bliss you are seeking?

As soon as you have reached up a particular material of physical goal in your life you feel quite satisfied and that is quite natural.
What is not natural however is that that satisfaction does not last very long indeed.
After a while new goals pop up in your mind and in a never end of goal to achieve and you find yourself once again not fully satisfied that is why I try to tell you that because the positive is ALWAYS annulled by the negative fully satisfaction in this physical dimension is a big big illusion.

Maybe... that satisfaction does not last very long, is in fact natural. Maybe we're just driven. That we can't stay in the same place very long. Maybe those of us who became complacent were weeded out, leaving only the perpetually ambitious, though it may not be the same ambitions as everyone else. The fact that what you claim is unnatural keeps happening may be an indication that it is natural despite your conviction otherwise, the same way that homosexuality is natural in the animal kingdom dispite the religious right's conviction otherwise.

At least my beliefs make sense while yours do not.

Every nutjob says that, sugarpuff. Even the insane ones.

If you can come up with a logical explanation why someone born in a positive situation while other can not

Have you not noticed that most people born into a positive situation tend to be the people who are born to parents in a positive situation, regardless of how they got that way? Or that people born in a negative situation tend to be the children of those in a negative situation? If you're born into a slum with disease and drug use, you're not going to have an easy time of it, and if you're born into luxury, you're going to have an easier time at making a success of yourself.

I can't believe I have to explain this to a grown person... but then I remember there are a lot of stupid people in this world.

or where our consciousness come from then I will bow to your superiority.

If you ask the wrong question, no answer will be the right one. I've told you before that consciousness bears all the signs that it starts, not that it comes from anywhere. You have yet to put together a cogent argument and gather evidence that demonstrates that consciousness is a thing that comes from anywhere and that there was anywhere to come from.

If by "logical explanation" you mean "explanation that emotionally satisfies you," you're not going to get one, for the universe doesn't owe you an explanation that emotionally satisfies you.

In the meantime I regard all your beliefs as a load of guessing of the worse kind.

Pot, meet kettle.

---

Element.
6)..........one of the substances, usually earth, water, air, and fire, formerly regarded as constituting the material universe.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/element

*claps* Good, you can use a dictionary to look up archaic definitions of words that have fallen out scientific favor, and really only have use in literary works and metaphorical speech! Have a gold star!

Again, you can break every one of these "elements" up into subcomponents, which kind of demonstrates that they are not elemental.

By the way I never said that.............. such things should have no consciousness ..............

I instead said that these ELEMENTS have a primitive and rudimental form of consciousness so consciousness is there anyway.

I would like to see you demonstrate any of these "elements" demonstrates even that rudimentary consciousness. You know, the way you haven't done with demonstrating that consciousness is a thing in and of itself. Evidence or GTFO.

What is not there is a developed form of consciousness able to have much influence on us humans.

You have yet to demonstrate any form of concsiousness at all in these "elements," so you're technically right.

[Baruch]

So...

39 pages, and 575 posts, and I still do not have any "gods".

Have you checked for lint in your belly button? ;-)  G-d might be hiding there.


Unbeliever - Don't diss crickets.  They are good luck in China.  Don't bring on the Chinese curse of "may you live in interesting times".

[Arik]

So...

39 pages, and 575 posts, and I still do not have any "gods".

I give you a tip how to find the real God SM.

Just go in front of a mirror.
What you see is God but the image is very much out of focus.
In fact is terribly out of focus but not all is lost brother.
In order to see God in full focus you got to perfect yourself so the image will be more and more in focus as the progress within goes on.

OK?

[Baruch]

People who dismiss humanity, can't find G-d in a mirror.  Sometimes they find it in the beauty of nature.  Like when a feral dog eats a baby rabbit.  I do find G-d in the mirror, but I can't say like him much ;-)  But then I am too hard on humans.

[Arik]

No. That doesn't fly. You are now equivocating "physical" with "carnal." That's a fallacy. You still only know that someone loves you by their behavior towards you. If you have a partner who is raping you and causing you mental torture, it is quite evident that he doesn't love you. You didn't come by this knowledge from looking within, or any such rubbish; you came by it by observing his behavior towards you and finding it at odds with the proposition that he loves you. Knowledge of his lack of love for you still comes from without.

Physical love got to be repeated time and time again because the positive and the negative always go hand in hand so is never all roses and permanent bliss.
Spiritual love on the other hand is void of the negative side that is why is not subject to the high and the low like physical love.

Fail.
"Seasoned" doesn't mean "withered old prune," you moron. How would you know that any of those young people have never had hooks inserted into them before? Did you track them all their life to determine that, like a creepy stalker? In fact, I believe that this above story you're telling is made up out of whole cloth. Show documentation for this, or STFU.

Been there done that Haku.
You on the contrary live in your little cocoon of fantasy so.........been nowhere done nothing.

No. Stop right there. The notion that an NDEing consciousness would not want to see their family again, even if they have to go through pain to do so, is simply unfathomable, and really doesn't say much for your lot in life.

Your problem is that you are still very much attached and fond of the little cocoon of materiality and physicality so your life is tied to it.
NDEs clearly show that in life nothing is stuck to anything else for long time.
As soon as the high tide come the sand is scattered all over the place so there can not be any attachment of whatsoever because we are like grain of sand in this vast universe.
From this any person with a tiny bit of brain would understand that the only attachment should only be directed to the master mind that created this universe.
That doesn't mean that we should disregard our family and the society as a whole as far as we live in this physical dimension.

Why would I believe it? You still have yet to give any foundation for this belief other than, apparently, the alternative is too terrifying to contemplate. Good and bad karma must be a thing, else evil people who die well don't get their comeuppance and people born into a poor situation and health do not deserve anything for their suffering â€" as if the universe owes you a fucking thing.

Karma is justice not revenge and justice is the only way to restore the lost balance.
If you got a better way to sort out problems then tell us so we can ask God to change the karma system in favor of your smart system

See, the above story you tell yourself is not one you tell yourself because of some knowledge or evolution on a part of consciousness, but rather the satisfaction of your most primitive need to see that fairness is done in an unfair world. And even then, it still doesn't work. What use is punishing a consciousness that doesn't remember what it did to deserve it? What's there to learn? How does that consciousness correct itself, without knowing what lead up to making a bad decision the first time around? And what use is teaching the moral lesson only to forget it the next time around? It doesn't make a lick of sense.

Good question Haku








but the answer is not that complicated at all.

As I already said in previous post the consequences of been able to see our previous lives would be detrimental.
Just imaging if in the previous life you were hanged for killing some people.
If that memory would carry on in this life you could not be at peace with yourself and your life would be a misery.
The same would happen to someone who were very good in previous lives.
That thought would make you think that you done enough so now in this life you don't have to do much at all.

The Buddhists at least identified that this scenario is just madness.

Buddha was a good yogi but he had to deal with that particular people that lived in his age and his original teaching have very little to do with what Buddhists follow these days.

Furthermore, how do you know it's the GOOD consciousnesses that get the good hands in life? Maybe Beethoven outright stole all the ideas he used to use in his symphonies when he reincarnated. Maybe I should sue.
That sounds like randomness, not evolution. There's no experiences carried forward to give any of this positiveness or negativeness any sort of context. Reincarnation doesn't have any use unless you remember what happened the last time so you don't repeat your mistakes. Without experiences, we're not even sure that the right people are getting punished this time around.

Too much guessing Haku.

A smart person doesn't really need to know why he-she got problems.
He-She will do what is necessary to sort out the problem and if the problems are to big to be sorted out then he-she should ask for help to the very entity that run the universal dimension.
Nothing is ever lost because physical death is not the death of you.

For as long as man has existed on this planet, for countless generations, the great majority of us have wollowed around in the mud, living and dying terrible lives. You'd think that if this reincarnation shit had any use, then you would see continual improvement in the lot of people's lives without materialistic intervention. But you don't. The most improvement we see comes through education and easing the material needs of the most destitute.

This is a really stupid question Haku.








If education would be a solution then we shouldn't have any problem in those places where education is a reality.
Unfortunately education alone is not the solution.
Look in your country where education is possible.
You got more warmongers, gun lovers,materialism and hatred than in places where there is no education.

FAIL AGAIN HAKU.

I like it how you blame my worldview and not yours. No, dearheart, you're failing to explain your worldview to me, because you don't understand it yourself.
That doesn't answer my question. Manifestly, your NDEs (supposedly) see and hear outside their body. That's why they're (supposedly) able to share accounts other than being in darkness and silence. Sight IS photon information. Hearing IS air vibration information. That requires them to interact with photons and air vibrations, which means they would, in fact, have physical presence. There must be interactions with physical matter or consciousness couldn't be caged at all. Period.

You are thick Haku, do you?

How on hell can a dead brain and body be able to create an experience like an NDE?

So, again, do you have ANY direct evidence for your consciousness as a thing existing as a separate entity? Otherwise, you are relying on the most unreliable form of evidence known to man to establish your NDEs, which barely works in a courtroom and never in science.

In a court room and in science obviously you need physical evidence so what?
Does that means that what is not physical is a load of rubbish just because physical science is unable to understand it?

Get real Haku.

Like you're in any better position. Your position is all guessing and no substance. How do you know that your feelings of bliss condition is even possible for us, given that you have rejected my counterexample? How do you know we aren't playthings to the gods and it is our lot to suffer? How do you know that we aren't just fundamentally broken and we are simply incapable of the kind of bliss you are seeking?

To know something you also got to be interested in that thing.
As far as your interest in this thing is zero than is quite obvious that for the time been your chances to understand are very very slim.

Maybe... that satisfaction does not last very long, is in fact natural. Maybe we're just driven. That we can't stay in the same place very long. Maybe those of us who became complacent were weeded out, leaving only the perpetually ambitious, though it may not be the same ambitions as everyone else. The fact that what you claim is unnatural keeps happening may be an indication that it is natural despite your conviction otherwise, the same way that homosexuality is natural in the animal kingdom dispite the religious right's conviction otherwise.
Every nutjob says that, sugarpuff. Even the insane ones.
Have you not noticed that most people born into a positive situation tend to be the people who are born to parents in a positive situation, regardless of how they got that way? Or that people born in a negative situation tend to be the children of those in a negative situation? If you're born into a slum with disease and drug use, you're not going to have an easy time of it, and if you're born into luxury, you're going to have an easier time at making a success of yourself.

Wherever you born is dictated by your good or bad karma.
You can not chose so if you born in the slum or in the golden cot that is due to your bad or good karma that you created in previous lives.

I can't believe I have to explain this to a grown person... but then I remember there are a lot of stupid people in this world.
If you ask the wrong question, no answer will be the right one. I've told you before that consciousness bears all the signs that it starts, not that it comes from anywhere. You have yet to put together a cogent argument and gather evidence that demonstrates that consciousness is a thing that comes from anywhere and that there was anywhere to come from.

NDEs are demonstrations good enough.

Everything and everyone are real and fully verifiable.
Hospitals in most cases keep the record of that person who was declared brain dead and lived to recount his-her experience.

If by "logical explanation" you mean "explanation that emotionally satisfies you," you're not going to get one, for the universe doesn't owe you an explanation that emotionally satisfies you.
Pot, meet kettle.

Something is logical when it make sense and follow a system that works which is something that so far you haven't brought.

*claps* Good, you can use a dictionary to look up archaic definitions of words that have fallen out scientific favor, and really only have use in literary works and metaphorical speech! Have a gold star!

Again, you can break every one of these "elements" up into subcomponents, which kind of demonstrates that they are not elemental.

When I was younger I did study some Latin so I do know where many of the English words originate from.
In this context you have very little to teach anyone.

Fail again Haku.

I would like to see you demonstrate any of these "elements" demonstrates even that rudimentary consciousness. You know, the way you haven't done with demonstrating that consciousness is a thing in and of itself. Evidence or GTFO.
You have yet to demonstrate any form of concsiousness at all in these "elements," so you're technically right.

Life without consciousness is not possible because everything is made of energy and energy and consciousness are the two sides of the same sheet.
That doesn't mean that a very rudimentary form of consciousness must have the same awareness as we humans have.

Consciousness goes in degree and evolution is the drive that allow consciousness to advance.

[Simon Moon]

I give you a tip how to find the real God SM.

Just go in front of a mirror.
What you see is God but the image is very much out of focus.
In fact is terribly out of focus but not all is lost brother.
In order to see God in full focus you got to perfect yourself so the image will be more and more in focus as the progress within goes on.

OK?

So, I looked in the mirror.

What I saw is:
Kingdom:Animalia
Phylum:Chordata
Class:Mammalia
Order:Primates
Suborder:Haplorhini
Infraorder:Simiiformes
Family:Hominidae
Subfamily:Homininae
Tribe:   Hominini
Genus:   Homo
Species:   H. sapiens

Just like the other 7.5 billion on planet earth. Maybe a bit higher intelligence than the average, with a heck of a lot of damn luck to be born in one of the most advanced societies in the world (albeit, with way too many theists trying their hardest to set us back to the Dark Ages). All evidence points to my existence, along with those other 7.5 billion, being of completely natural origin.

Nope, no evidence of being a god (although my girlfriend has yelled "god" from time to time in bed).

[Mike Cl]

I find it interesting that the single most important indicator of one's religious beliefs is geography.  Look at a map that uses colors for the concentrations of the major religions of the world.  The map is not a brown because the various religions are found all over the place; no, it is multicolored because the various religions are found in their parts of the world.   Our beliefs are based more on the luck of the draw where you were born--not because one religion is better than another.

[Baruch]

So, I looked in the mirror.

What I saw is:
Kingdom:Animalia
Phylum:Chordata
Class:Mammalia
Order:Primates
Suborder:Haplorhini
Infraorder:Simiiformes
Family:Hominidae
Subfamily:Homininae
Tribe:   Hominini
Genus:   Homo
Species:   H. sapiens

Just like the other 7.5 billion on planet earth. Maybe a bit higher intelligence than the average, with a heck of a lot of damn luck to be born in one of the most advanced societies in the world (albeit, with way too many theists trying their hardest to set us back to the Dark Ages). All evidence points to my existence, along with those other 7.5 billion, being of completely natural origin.

Nope, no evidence of being a god (although my girlfriend has yelled "god" from time to time in bed).

Homo?  TMI ;-0

Definitely not Sapiens though.  Stupidus.