Author Topic: How many GODS do you have?  (Read 13053 times)

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2019, 08:07:31 PM »
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Arithmetically challenged? ;-}  I have billions.

Well, that's good, because Trump lost billions! Dollars, that is.
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"An experiment is a question which science poses to Nature, and a measurement is the recording of Nature's answer."
Max Planck, Scientific Autobiography and Other Papers (1949)

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2019, 09:41:25 PM »
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True.


In that case you reject what physical science already said which is that even plants have a degree of consciousness.

Don't you think that it is quite hypocritical to glorify science when goes along with your thinking (very very rarely indeed) and reject it when it goes against?
When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2019, 01:10:15 AM »
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In that case you reject what physical science already said which is that even plants have a degree of consciousness.

Don't you think that it is quite hypocritical to glorify science when goes along with your thinking (very very rarely indeed) and reject it when it goes against?

Science here mostly consists in believing in fictional giant sentient robots ;-)
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2019, 01:34:23 AM »
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In that case you reject what physical science already said which is that even plants have a degree of consciousness.

Don't you think that it is quite hypocritical to glorify science when goes along with your thinking (very very rarely indeed) and reject it when it goes against?

Regardless of if it is right or not, how many agree with you?
So it is true that most would not accept your panpsychism.
Learn to read and understand replies by other people. It'll help you to reply correctly to them.

I don't deny anything, for that matter. I've just not been interested by your other threads. So any evidence of plants having conscience you already posted is lost on me.
You're welcome to point me in the right direction as I'll admit: that is news to me.
Though I don't see how it would drive me to panpsychism.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 01:40:31 AM by Mr.Obvious »
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Offline Cavebear

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2019, 02:05:55 AM »
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Stupid word games today, is it? Well, as long as we're muddying the definitions of words to the point of them becoming meaningless... A human is defined as a featherless biped. I present to you, a human being.



Humans are differently bipedal.  Birds are bipedal but they tend to hop. Kangaroos are bipedal, but they alternate between pentapedalism (4 legs and a tail) except when they hop.,  Some apes CAN walk bipedal but mostly just stand erect to look around rather than move.

Humans seem to be the only animals that actual walk or run be literally falling forward as they go.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2019, 04:00:08 AM »
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Humans are differently bipedal.  Birds are bipedal but they tend to hop. Kangaroos are bipedal, but they alternate between pentapedalism (4 legs and a tail) except when they hop.,  Some apes CAN walk bipedal but mostly just stand erect to look around rather than move.

Humans seem to be the only animals that actual walk or run be literally falling forward as they go.

Kangaroos use their big tail ... so not true bipedalism.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2019, 04:11:48 AM »
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Most people would not accept Arik's panpsychism.

There was Idealism (there is no matter, only ideas) in 19th century philosophy.  For contemporary non-supernatural panpsychism that I would lean toward ...

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Basically he denies epiphenomenalism, eliminationism, Cartesian dualism.

Cartesian Dualism = there are two things, mind and matter, neither of which can influence each other.
Eliminationism = there is no such thing as mind, it is an illusion.  But this is incoherent ... who or what is having the illusion?
Epiphenomenalism = consciousness is a secondary product of the electrical behavior of the brain (consciousness can't effect brain).

And ancient materialism = thoughts are very fine atoms, more like fire than like gas.

Also see Rupert Sheldrake for a holistic view (vs non-reductionist/materialist) ...

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So there are arguments for panpsychism.  I am pantheist (Spinoza version), because I am theist, but would otherwise agree with panpsychism.  For me there is no opposition between natural and supernatural, between matter and mind.  These are categories of cognitive convenience applied to reality by monkeys.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 04:15:37 AM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2019, 06:42:50 AM »
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Kangaroos use their big tail ... so not true bipedalism.

Only when pentalizing (sp?).  When bipedal, the tail is only a counterweight off-ground.  Pental movement is when they are on all 4 limbs AND use the tail to move as well.  I know I'm getting the term wrong , but I can't find the right term quickly.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2019, 11:31:50 AM »
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Regardless of if it is right or not, how many agree with you?
So it is true that most would not accept your panpsychism.
Learn to read and understand replies by other people. It'll help you to reply correctly to them.

I don't deny anything, for that matter. I've just not been interested by your other threads. So any evidence of plants having conscience you already posted is lost on me.
You're welcome to point me in the right direction as I'll admit: that is news to me.
Though I don't see how it would drive me to panpsychism.


Changes do not occur easily.
Most people wait and wait until everybody else is aboard to join and jump on the bandwagon themselves.
This is better known as the sheep attitude or sheep syndrome.

Intelligent people on the other hand do not follow this system.
They search and search until they reach a positive result regardless of what other people think or do.

Most people these days are victim of this sheep attitude while intelligent people are few.
Not only atheists and materialists but even many theists (mostly religious theists) behave in the same way.

The thing however is that intelligent people get there first and fools much later on wasting in this way precious time and that means more and more suffering for themselves.

There are already tons and tons of information about consciousness in lower form of life but most people are just not interested or prefer to see the topic become a normal thing before they agree with it.


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When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2019, 08:11:53 PM »
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Changes do not occur easily.
Most people wait and wait until everybody else is aboard to join and jump on the bandwagon themselves.
This is better known as the sheep attitude or sheep syndrome.

Intelligent people on the other hand do not follow this system.
They search and search until they reach a positive result regardless of what other people think or do.

Most people these days are victim of this sheep attitude while intelligent people are few.
Not only atheists and materialists but even many theists (mostly religious theists) behave in the same way.

The thing however is that intelligent people get there first and fools much later on wasting in this way precious time and that means more and more suffering for themselves.

There are already tons and tons of information about consciousness in lower form of life but most people are just not interested or prefer to see the topic become a normal thing before they agree with it.


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After reading your article, I need to ask you:
Did you think any of us denied that a plant dipped in poison would react differently from one planted in a healthy manure?
And while I agree a plant is a living organism, I need to ask you: how does that reaction equate conscience?
 
 And even if it did, let's say for arguments sake that it does, how does that prove that this world is made up of mind instead of matter?
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2019, 08:14:01 PM »
Never mind, doesn't matter.
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"An experiment is a question which science poses to Nature, and a measurement is the recording of Nature's answer."
Max Planck, Scientific Autobiography and Other Papers (1949)

Offline Shiranu

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2019, 08:44:20 PM »
Quote
Throughout history we have seen many people who died for their God but their God was not made of matter and that make a lot of difference.

Why does it make a difference?

Quote
Today people suffer and die for a God that is made of matter.

That is not anything new, that is literally describing life at the most fundamental level. When you boil it all down, all life is is a state of suffering and dying while chasing matter to extend life to it's longest possible extent.
Quod est inferius, est sicut quod est superius.
Et quod est superius, est sicut quod est inferius.

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2019, 06:34:20 AM »
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Why does it make a difference?

People are motivated by ideas.  So ideas are very important.

Quote
That is not anything new, that is literally describing life at the most fundamental level. When you boil it all down, all life is is a state of suffering and dying while chasing matter to extend life to it's longest possible extent.

Correct.  Are you a vegetarian yet?
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2019, 07:22:33 AM »
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Never mind, doesn't matter.

Sense of humor always help.

Good on you.  :grin: :lipsrsealed: :laugh:
When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2019, 08:53:10 AM »
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After reading your article, I need to ask you:
Did you think any of us denied that a plant dipped in poison would react differently from one planted in a healthy manure


With his experiment Bose change the notion that the stimuli in plants had to have a chemical nature or cause.
But even today most atheists think that this is the case so to ask me what any of you think I would say.......you guys are still miles and miles away from the truth.


Quote
And while I agree a plant is a living organism, I need to ask you: how does that reaction equate conscience?


Simple MO.
By showing that the reaction of that plant was NOT caused by a chemical reaction or cause Bose proved that plants have consciousness.
Only consciousness is able to show a reaction to pain and affection.

 
Quote
And even if it did, let's say for arguments sake that it does, how does that prove that this world is made up of mind instead of matter?


Energy and consciousness always go hand in hand like the two sides of the same sheet.
Matter is energy which is kept in a latent stage because there is no awareness in the consciousness that is in that matter so the question is not whether the world is made of mind or matter.
It is rather that is made of energy and consciousness.









When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

 

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