How many GODS do you have?

[Baruch]

I keep hearing people suggest this but never with a reason why...or a guess as to why....or even some nutjob Ariklien lunacy as to why....so why?

It is a thought experiment, by psychologists/philosophers.  Similarly the "can't tell a human from a zombie" model of consciousness (thought experiment).  That materially, you could have a zombie with no consciousness, and it would behave indistinguishably from a human.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

Most people are "naive realists" ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naïve_realism

[aitm]

You are assuming that what you see directly with your eyes etc is real.  But that isn't true (or false). 

I disagree, though really I don't know why I would bother as this topic has plenty of coverage. Until you can show why I should assume that what my eyes see is not true, I am forced to assume it must be true for there can be no other logical assumption that can be made.

To simply say....maybe.... is to simply say maybe, which is no reason to consider the obvious as not true.

If, in actuality,it could be shown that there is reasonable logic to assume that what we see is not true then I will continue to follow the road and not veer off into the woods.

One of the reasons the masses lost interest in philosophy is when it ventured into the realm of the unproven able it suggested it must be assumed as a possibility instead of a mind experiment. Which is all it is, and all it will ever be. A mere thought experiment, with absolutely no possibility of being true.

[Baruch]

It is OK to be a naive realist.  It is what most people are.  Even I use it (but I label the real things differently than you do).  We both agree that your hand is attached to your arm, and my hand is attached to my arm (assuming no amputations).  We can get past assumptions with a Skype call, that would count as at demonstration (not proof).  Usually, being like other people, is somehow unsatisfactory for most of us.

So my realism doesn't equal your realism, because of labels.  But I accept that we are both naive (we are monkeys).

The point for a more sophisticated philosophy?  Maybe no point.  The famous case of "sophists" is they can argue in an Athenian court that the truth is false and the false is true.  Socrates (philosopher - lover of sophistry) claimed to get beyond this limitation, but an Athenian court executed him.

[aitm]

The point for a more sophisticated philosophy? 

By mimicking the ridiculous claims of religion? Philosophy....though by threat of execution most likely, was forced to grant religious thought equal footing in the world of "knowledge" and thus allowed ignorance a equal chair at the table. We have been unable to pull that chair from them since. But philosophy decided that they too would like a piece of the woo money and all kinds of "spiritual" schools pranced to life to gather the dollars from the ignorant.

Now they invent nonsense and claim that we must grant them respect because even though they cannot prove their spectacular claims....like religion they cannot be disproven.. I do not grant this to religion or whack-a-doo philosophy dressed in fancy words. I have taken a page from religion. I will not accept what you present without evidence. Your claims have no merit without absolute proof. Now of course, what I think means nothing at all to the argument....it only means something to me.

[Baruch]

You are free.  You need not respect anyone or anything.  But don't go too far, otherwise you travel beyond psychopathy into sociopathy.

I choose to sympathize with people, but not their BS ideas.  Their ideas are the raving content of their self/mutual delusion.  My understanding of what is delusion, is more skeptical than your kind.  But not because I am seeking some pure nihilism.

[Arik]

What bull-shit. Humans are only a very small part of the life on this planet but nutjob here thinks they have some special link to some grand wizard that hovers over a 14 billion light year universe.

We evolved from fungi, plant based. Get over your grand illusion that we are all that important to anything but our own existence and to the future of our planet should probably get more involved in saving that as our only place to live.

You probably should park your ass in the dark forests and whisper to mushrooms....or at least into the ocean and kneel before the sponges...then you may get the enlightenment you seek, pretty obvious to most but sometimes you need a grenade to the side of the head to get some brain activity going.

Most probably in my past lives I was a dreamer like you but evolution does miracles so now I am here looking at myself in you hundreds years ago.
But don't worry mate because you too will get out that mental stagnation in which you are at the moment.

The time is a clear indicator that this dimension is but a big illusion because when we are happy the time goes very fast but when we suffer the time takes ages and ages to pass.
If this dimension would be real then it should take the same time to pass as a watch show but in reality it doesn't.

When you believe that we humans have a different origin and that low form of life like mushrooms and sponges from the ocean never improve their status to reach human status and above then you show that you understand evolution as a donkey understand the carrot trick.

[aitm]

Babbling stupid shit in an attempt to appear enlightened merely shows your bulb is out. Seriously...whatever shit your drinking, you should bottle.

[Arik]

Babbling stupid shit in an attempt to appear enlightened merely shows your bulb is out. Seriously...whatever shit your drinking, you should bottle.

You still don't get the fact that Darwin explanation of evolution only related to body changes do you?

How long will it takes to understand the full picture?

[aitm]

I understand the full picture. You seem to think humans are special. They are not.

[Unbeliever]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msDcShv_r20

[Baruch]

Babbling stupid shit in an attempt to appear enlightened merely shows your bulb is out. Seriously...whatever shit your drinking, you should bottle.

If you are skeptic enough when will you doubt yourself?

[Baruch]

I understand the full picture. You seem to think humans are special. They are not.

And people think I am a misanthrope?  I am a humanist/humanitarian.  Unfortunately this is the NYC zoo from Madagascar.

[aitm]

I don't hate humanity, most of us understand that if you could reduce DNA to a handful of colored marbles the only difference between us, an oak tree or a cricket is a couple marbles...hence "he's a couple marbles short"....lol, I know... I had too, it was right there.

Anyhoo, we did evolve into splendid creatures.... but many don't want to be associated with "filthy dirty animals", even though we are filthy dirty animals. Our very bodies are walking Queen Mary's to a billion organisms feasting off us and in us. Perhaps the micro world created us to live in. There is far more reason to follow that line of creation than the idea that a grand wizard popping universes into existence and then creating miniature creatures to inhabit a planet and then demand homage and punish them for loving someone or for eating another creature is absurd. Just absurd. And Yo-yo here thinks we can be one with the universe.....oy.

[Unbeliever]

Well, maybe we can be three with the universe...

[Arik]

I don't hate humanity, most of us understand that if you could reduce DNA to a handful of colored marbles the only difference between us, an oak tree or a cricket is a couple marbles...hence "he's a couple marbles short"....lol, I know... I had too, it was right there.

Anyhoo, we did evolve into splendid creatures.... but many don't want to be associated with "filthy dirty animals", even though we are filthy dirty animals. Our very bodies are walking Queen Mary's to a billion organisms feasting off us and in us. Perhaps the micro world created us to live in. There is far more reason to follow that line of creation than the idea that a grand wizard popping universes into existence and then creating miniature creatures to inhabit a planet and then demand homage and punish them for loving someone or for eating another creature is absurd. Just absurd. And Yo-yo here thinks we can be one with the universe.....oy.

Once again you show how little you understand evolution.

Humans are not special or lucky for some mysterious unknown reasons but are rather special and lucky because they reach a significant progress in the effort to reach the goal of life so the only difference between humans and low form of life is the line of progress that separate one with the other.

That of course means that everybody and everything will in due time reach the same goal.
A bit like a pupil that just start school and those more advanced in their studies and progress.

Progress is open to anyone so a plant will evolve into animal life, animals into humans and humans will reach the goal of life which is something that atheists still don't know it exist.

Unfortunately atheists are still stuck with the notion that all form of life stay as they are and evolution is only related to changes in physical structure with no way for anyone to evolve through reincarnation.

By thinking in this way they also should think that a pupil that start the first year in their primary class have no chance to progress to year two and so on until they reach the uni.
This form of dogma is as bad as any religious dogma which make them go around with the blinkers in the eyes.