How many GODS do you have?

[Cavebear]

You just don't get it man.

If physical science say that death is irreversible then those doctors that declare these people involved in their NDE dead then they must be total idiots considering that these people come back to life?

But doctors are not idiots.
They know exactly when is the case to declare the bloke dead or not.
The only problem is that these NDEs do not come under the rules of the physical science.
Doctors do their duty and they do it quite well but it is not part of their knowledge to understand what is not part of physical-medical science.

Doctors did not study the relationship that link individual consciousness with God.
They only studied physical science and medical science in particular so nobody expect from them to understand what the consciousness is all about.

Medical science can not conceive that an irreversible dead is not irreversible but what is impossible for the physical spectrum is instead possible for the master of the universe therefore there is absolutely nothing irreversible and impossible.

What part of NEAR DEATH can you not actually understand as NOT BEING ACTUALLY DEAD?

[josephpalazzo]

My grandparents kept a mynah in the late 1960s; we took care of it for two weeks while they vacationed in Italy.  Every morning like clockwork, at 6am that damn thing would go "AWRK!  DIRTY RAT!  DIRTY RAT!" right outside my bedroom door.

Only now does that make me wonder just what the everlasting Technicolor hell was going on over at Grandma and Grandpa's house that it picked *that* phrase and timing up...

LOL.

My mother's budgie's favorite line was: "you're a pig", what my mother would tell it everything it would spread its semen all over the mirror. Of course, when we had visitors, our dear budgie would lash out:"you're a pig, you're a pig, you're a pig."

[Cavebear]

LOL.

My mother's budgie's favorite line was: "you're a pig", what my mother would tell it everything it would spread its semen all over the mirror. Of course, when we had visitors, our dear budgie would lash out:"you're a pig, you're a pig, you're a pig."

I have a vague recollection of stomping the family parakeet when I was about 2.  Maybe it insulted me.  I do regret it.

[Baruch]

Hasn't theism been the majority view for quite some time?  ðŸ¤"

You undercut your own position.  Majority good as long as I agree with it.  Majority bad as long as I disagree with it.

[Arik]

Hasn't theism been the majority view for quite some time?  ðŸ¤"

Very funny.

Unfortunately for you when I do say............the history is full of cases.....that doesn't mean that all the cases must follow this reasoning.

Try again mate maybe the next time you may have more luck. 

[Arik]

What part of NEAR DEATH can you not actually understand as NOT BEING ACTUALLY DEAD?

To say.........that bloke is dead.....is just a way to pretend that for that bloke is all over when in reality nothing is over.
It is only that humans can not see what happen behind that event.
Even science tell us that energy is behind death or dissolution and because we are energy-consciousness we are never dead.

All the medical science can do is to tell that that body is dead and I agree with them but because these scientists are unable to see behind the veil of physical death then is all open to scrutiny.

Physical death is real but consciousness death is not possible so while the shell is dead the I is not.

A life time seem to be an enormous length of time.
In reality is just a drop of time so to speak.
A bit like when you engage in a trip inside your vehicle from point A to point B.
During that time you feel like you and the vehicle are one when in reality there is you and there is the vehicle.
Because we feel so much that our body is us due to a period spent inside it then we find difficult to realize that we are not the body but because soon or later we reach point B we eventually will have to get out the vehicle-body and live on.

[Arik]

Your theory has been debunked.
Bye

When, where, how?

You are a total joke my friend.
However I got a very good news for you Jos.
The day you will stop being an arrogant nose picking kid you will start to see the whole world in a different dimension and you will be attracted to that mighty power that has been waiting for you for millions of evolutionary years.

Good luck with that.

[Hydra009]

Very funny.

Unfortunately for you when I do say............the history is full of cases.....that doesn't mean that all the cases must follow this reasoning.

It's almost as if popularity has no logical connection to truth and anyone insisting otherwise is talking complete bollocks.  What was your argument again?

[aileron]

To say.........that bloke is dead.....is just a way to pretend that for that bloke is all over when in reality nothing is over.
It is only that humans can not see what happen behind that event.
Even science tell us that energy is behind death or dissolution and because we are energy-consciousness we are never dead.

Seriously? Energy left behind is consciousness?

What happens if you hit your head with a hammer? The energy state of your brain isn't affected hardly at all. By your "hypothesis" there would be no change in state of consciousness.

Spectacularly weak argument.

[Baruch]

Seriously? Energy left behind is consciousness?

What happens if you hit your head with a hammer? The energy state of your brain isn't affected hardly at all. By your "hypothesis" there would be no change in state of consciousness.

Spectacularly weak argument.

My POV, as metaphysics ... it isn't energy ... that is still physical.

[Arik]

It's almost as if popularity has no logical connection to truth and anyone insisting otherwise is talking complete bollocks.  What was your argument again?

Popularity may or may not have a... logical connection to truth.......case by case need to be examine and scrutinize.
My point however was that quite often the popular trend is taken as the correct one when in fact is often all wrong.
I don't see how this simple point is so difficult to understand.

[Arik]

Seriously? Energy left behind is consciousness?

What happens if you hit your head with a hammer? The energy state of your brain isn't affected hardly at all. By your "hypothesis" there would be no change in state of consciousness.

Spectacularly weak argument.

Your reasoning is all wrong.

First the brain is not the consciousness.
The brain is made of matter while the consciousness is an abstract entity.
The two are separate things although they reside inside the same skull.

To me and to yoga death or better say what we call death is only the separation between consciousness and body-brain so nothing really die.
The consciousness goes elsewhere in an other body or merge into the essence of the cosmic consciousness while the body turn his energy into other form of energy (dust, compost....or anything else) so energy never die in either cases.

If the blow of a hammer knock you off then there may be this separation which is something that we wrongly call death.

[SGOS]

This thread reminds me of a Dinner for Schmucks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHtLwmVdcJg

[aileron]

Your reasoning is all wrong.

First the brain is not the consciousness.
The brain is made of matter while the consciousness is an abstract entity.
The two are separate things although they reside inside the same skull.


To me and to yoga death or better say what we call death is only the separation between consciousness and body-brain so nothing really die.
The consciousness goes elsewhere in an other body or merge into the essence of the cosmic consciousness while the body turn his energy into other form of energy (dust, compost....or anything else) so energy never die in either cases.

If the blow of a hammer knock you off then there may be this separation which is something that we wrongly call death.

1) What evidence do you have to support your hypothesis?
2) How would you know if your hypothesis is wrong?
3) A hammer blow knocks unconscious not dead. Does the consciousness float outside the skull for a while until it's ready to rejoin?
4) Why postulate the duality at all in the case of #3 when it's explained more parsimoniously by naturalistic means?
5) If the consciousness does not have the memories, how can it be said to be the same consciousness transferred to another brain?

I'm looking forward to being underwhelmed by your responses. Quite frankly, I'm expecting answers that don't appreciate the problems posed by the questions. Surprise me.

[Hydra009]

Popularity may or may not have a... logical connection to truth.......case by case need to be examine and scrutinize

Newsflash: it doesn't.  Period.  The fact that you still think this argument holds water is really quite embarrassing since you obviously don't find it at all convincing when it's used to support a conclusion you don't like.