Author Topic: How many GODS do you have?  (Read 4802 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #105 on: May 20, 2019, 01:21:50 AM »
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Please describe a mental state one can be in, with regards to existential claims, besides accepting the claim as being true, or not accepting the claim as being true.

In other words, besides: accepting the claim that a god exists as being true (theist), and not accepting that claim as being true (atheist), what other mental state can one be in with regards to the claim that gods exist?

If one claims that they don't know if gods exist, then that sure seems like they are in the 'not accepting the claim' camp. If one claims that they vacillate between the 2 positions, at least for part of the time, they are in the  'not accepting the claim' camp. Which is still a binary mental state.

You don't know me very well.  For me, atheism/theism isn't a matter of logic or epistemology, but of psychology.  Epistemological or historical arguments, for me, are irrelevant.  I don't care if the supernatural objectively exists, or the natural for that matter.  Don't care if Jesus lived as a man or a god objectively.  Objectivity/subjectivity is irrelevant to me.  A false dichotomy.

You might have a subjective experience that you are rational .. I call BS.  You might have a subjective experience that you are empirical ... I call BS.  You might believe that your subjective experience of an objective reality (aka Plato's cave) is true.  Human psychology is not a matter of reality, but of imagination, some of which is entirely convincing, and some of which is just play time.

Example ... if you are Jewish in 1940, and you meet up with a Nazi who wants to kill you ... the logical or empirical status of Nazi ideology is irrelevant.  That is for useless academics to debate.  The problem is ... the Nazi believes it and will act on it!  That is what atheists are afraid of too, as a despised minority.  Argue as a Japanese in Hiroshima, that nuking you is cruel.  Enjoy the ball of fire either way.

Here is where philosophy gets you ...

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« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 02:07:14 AM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #106 on: May 20, 2019, 01:22:55 AM »
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Haven't seen those films yet. So I don't get that reference.

You didn't miss much, but even the Avengers last movie was better than last two episodes of Game of Thrones ;-(
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #107 on: May 20, 2019, 09:14:06 AM »
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Then you are using the word 'god' in a very nonstandard way. The vast majority of humanity, would look at you a bit strangely for using the word that way.

So, it seems like you are defining the word to be almost synonymous with 'obsession'. Not sure where that gets any of us?

But even under your strange definition, I still have no gods.

Now, I do understand that there are people that, as you say, "become attached and fond to something and this attachment become their main attraction" to an unhealthy level. So, if that is your definition of 'god', then under your definition, those gods exist.

Congratulations! You were able to define gods in such a bizarre way, that I am not an atheist with regards to your definition. Because, yes, people do become obsessed toward things to an unhealthy level.


If you believe the story about Buddha he sat down under the tree in meditation until he attained enlightenment and that time last seven weeks.
When you are very close to the goal of life you become obsessed.
And he became obsessed to reach this goal.

As far as the goal that you try to reach lead you to spiritual progress the obsession is not a problem.
However it become a big problem when the obsession is towards materials objects and in many cases even towards a physical entity.

The reason is very simple.
While within the material and physical arena the positive always go hand in hand with the negative within the spiritual arena the negative does not exist that is why an obsession in this field is good while in the material-physical arena is bad.








When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #108 on: May 20, 2019, 09:44:37 AM »
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These stars look like the were desirned to look like a crab or a lobster? Seriously?!




Seriously sure.
Sure that you take it too seriously.

You are an intellectual so you try to get the perfection within the mental arena in contrast to the people of the past that were not much intellectual.

Everything to them was so much more simple so they related signs to anything that came in their mind and two lines that extend out a possible body represent the arms of a crab but again if you try to be too squeamish-fussy or picky then you will never get it.



When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #109 on: May 21, 2019, 05:35:11 PM »
Came across this just now.
Reminded me of this thread.

"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Offline Cavebear

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #110 on: May 22, 2019, 05:15:57 AM »
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Yup. That's why the sign "Cancer" looks like a crab. Don't know what that's supposed to prove, though. Signs are bullshit.



LOVED THAT!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Cavebear

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #111 on: May 22, 2019, 05:18:48 AM »
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But what does "crab" mean?  Several, but this one is spot on ...

To move sideways or obliquely.  That is a good description of my rhetorical technique.

Earlier I was referring to cancer by analogy with the medical term, an out of control growth.  Humans are very feral in that way.

Again from 4 years ago, my Point of Reference is Kabbalah.  There are three areas of interest in Kabbalah ...

1. Theoretical speculation - both meta-physical and physical (aka Sankhya/Jnana in Hindu culture)

2. Metaphysical practice - magic (metaphysical) (aka Bhakti/Siddhi in Hindu culture, subjective reality)

3. Physical practice - non-magic (physical) (aka Karma, Raja, Hatha in Hindu culture, objective reality)

As a pragmatist, my emphasis is on #3.  Though I am not disinterested in the first two.

The primary problem for anyone focused on a particular system is practice.  Hopefully as a retiree I can devote more time to that.

LOL!  crab in Latin is "cancer".  Nothing more, nothing less.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Cavebear

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #112 on: May 22, 2019, 05:27:08 AM »
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You might have a subjective experience that you are rational .. I call BS.  You might have a subjective experience that you are empirical ... I call BS.  You might believe that your subjective experience of an objective reality (aka Plato's cave) is true.  Human psychology is not a matter of reality, but of imagination, some of which is entirely convincing, and some of which is just play time.

Well, one way to test "objective reality" would be to explode a grenade in your face (thinking it was non-real) and then see if you could discuss it afterwards...

Note:  I DO assume no one would be that stupid...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #113 on: May 22, 2019, 07:08:58 AM »
Actually, that is an assumption.  And we can't function without assumptions (hence even proper deduction is weak).  It is assumed you are real, that you are alive, that you are conscious .. I agree these are compelling assumptions.  But that doesn't make them true.  You could still be a brain in a jar with artificial stimuli.  Our whole individual personality and whole collective culture is based on "make believe" that is inherited, with mutations, from one generation to the next.  Just like those non-existent lines that divide countries on maps.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline aitm

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #114 on: May 22, 2019, 07:34:12 AM »
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  It is assumed you are real, that you are alive, that you are conscious ..


I must disagree. You can assume you may not be real, but you can't prove it.

By what evidence can be used to suggest one may not be real against all that suggests you are? I would assume that reality would be the default, not the assumption that everything is false.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #115 on: May 22, 2019, 11:08:13 AM »
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Well, one way to test "objective reality" would be to explode a grenade in your face (thinking it was non-real) and then see if you could discuss it afterwards...

Note:  I DO assume no one would be that stupid...


There are people who can brake bricks with the head and other that can introduce hooks or metal rods through their flesh and feel no pain

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and I suppose that if you develop your consciousness to a very high degree you could also overcome a grenade in your face but again all this is not for a week consciousness.

It all depend CB.

Once you reach the stage in which you realize that this universe is a mental projection of someone very very powerful than you also realize that the matter such as a grenade can not harm you at all because what is inferior to you has no power over you.

Obviously to reach this state you got to lift your consciousness to the very top of the human emancipation.

Oh, by the way do not ask me if I would let a grenade explode over me.
I am not God after all. 





When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Offline aitm

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #116 on: May 22, 2019, 11:42:31 AM »
What bull-shit. Humans are only a very small part of the life on this planet but nutjob here thinks they have some special link to some grand wizard that hovers over a 14 billion light year universe.

We evolved from fungi, plant based. Get over your grand illusion that we are all that important to anything but our own existence and to the future of our planet should probably get more involved in saving that as our only place to live.
 
You probably should park your ass in the dark forests and whisper to mushrooms....or at least into the ocean and kneel before the sponges...then you may get the enlightenment you seek, pretty obvious to most but sometimes you need a grenade to the side of the head to get some brain activity going.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #117 on: May 22, 2019, 01:16:39 PM »
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You could still be a brain in a jar with artificial stimuli.


More likely to be a Boltzmann brain:


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Ecclesiastes 10:16

Offline aitm

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #118 on: May 22, 2019, 01:54:26 PM »
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  You could still be a brain in a jar with artificial stimuli. 

I keep hearing people suggest this but never with a reason why...or a guess as to why....or even some nutjob Ariklien lunacy as to why....so why?
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Baruch

Re: How many GODS do you have?
« Reply #119 on: May 22, 2019, 03:36:48 PM »
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I must disagree. You can assume you may not be real, but you can't prove it.

By what evidence can be used to suggest one may not be real against all that suggests you are? I would assume that reality would be the default, not the assumption that everything is false.

Proof only exists in math.  And even in math, proof isn't iron-clad, only relatively so.  Everything else is "demonstration" not "proof".  As people often say here, use the correct word or be considered less ...

To assume that there is only true/false is an assumption (Law of Excluded Middle) is invalid in higher math.  Even invalid in Buddhist logic from 2000 years ago.  It is impossible not to have assumptions.  You are assuming that what you see directly with your eyes etc is real.  But that isn't true (or false).  It is a pragmatic assumption.

I do use the same method, I regard my hand on the end of my arm as real.  Other assumptions, even with proper deduction, that would deny that, are nonsense.  But I understand I have no proof.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

 

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