Russian Trolls a Large Part of the Anti-Vaxx Movement

[Shiranu]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/09/in-the-united-states-russian-trolls-are-peddling-measles-disinformation-on-twitter/

The existence of a Russian disinformation campaign that could make Americans hesitant to vaccinate their children highlights something important about the Kremlin’s information war on the United States. Moscow’s goal has never been to advantage Republicans or Democrats. Instead, it is after a far bigger prize: the exacerbation of Americans’ distrust of one another and, in turn, the erosion of their confidence in society and the U.S. government.


A recent study from David Broniatowski, a professor at George Washington University, and his co-authors found that thousands of Russian accounts used to spread disinformation had seized on anti-vaccine messaging.

After combing through nearly 2 million tweets recorded between 2014 and 2017, the researchers found that Russian troll accounts were significantly more likely to tweet about vaccination than general Twitter users. They had turned to vaccines as a wedge issue in an effort to ramp up social discord, erode trust in public health institutions, and exacerbate fear and division in the United States.


...


This isn’t the first time Russian information warfare campaigns have focused on U.S. public health. One of the most successful Soviet disinformation efforts, codenamed Operation Infektion, set out to push a false narrative that the HIV virus had been created by the U.S. government at Fort Detrick, Maryland, for the explicit purpose of targeting black and gay people in the United States and abroad.

Operation Infektion’s first volley was a piece published in an English-language newspaper in India in July 1983. The arguments were then spread throughout the world through a series of KGB initiatives. By 1987, CBS News had covered the claim. Not only did this effort tarnish America’s reputation abroadâ€"and weaken the ability of the United States to work with foreign governments to address the HIV crisisâ€"but it also attempted to stoke Americans’ distrust in their own government.

And that gambit worked. In 1992, 15 percent of Americans agreed that it was definitely or probably the case that HIV was “created deliberately in a government laboratory.” The effect was particularly strong among one of the Soviets’ key targets: African Americans. A 2005 study by the Rand Corp. and Oregon State University found that more than 25 percent of African Americans who were surveyed considered HIV to be the product of a government lab.

Getting real sick of Russia's shit, tbh. A large part of the racial tension in the United States is also fueled by these bots (ontop of the legitimate reasons for racial tensions), and like the article points out that has been going on for decades.


(And yes, I realise a lot of this is retaliation for us doing the same/similar shit to them that I am sick of us doing as well... but as an American I clearly have a bias to be even sicker of their shit)

[Baruch]

Sounds like Western/British COINTELPRO.  Back in the day, the Russians were all 8 ft tall, invented everything, and put their pants on two legs at a time with that Russian dance the men do ;-)

So, there are no Western trolls, just Russian secret agents.  Boris and Natasha perhaps?

[drunkenshoe]

Anti-vaccination movement has started relatively recently in Turkey and these people argue from American sources, events and statistics when questioned. (I'm not talking about the old 'it is a sin' opinion. It's a new group of people.) As it is mandatory in the country, they can't get their children into schools. Because parents are asked for a vaccination card. But it doesn't look very good for the future.

Not just anti-vaccination movement specifically, but American conspiracy theory culture affects a lot of cultures around the world. This is actually a part of this. Because the US media in every medium is louder than any other. English is very widely understood.  I think American culture is very suitable to create conspiracy theories. Because the federal state is abnormally powerful, you can also make money from this. Understanding of Freedom is very different in the US. May be, people think US is 'the root of all evil', lol and that Americans would know about their state and government and that they can say it out loud. Flat earthers, moon landing hoax bullshit... . All these groups are related to American groups. So it is the conspiracy theory culture overall as I see it.     

But then apparently, Russia has a serious vaccination problem itself.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2018/09/28/russia-has-a-vaccine-problem-a63017

...In 2017, the Federal Center of Hygiene and Epidemiology reportedly determined that 48.7 percent of Russian children born in 2016 had not been vaccinated comprehensively and on the medically prescribed schedule.

As a result, Russian medical experts say the country struggles to maintain so-called herd immunity â€" the threshold percentage of the population that must be immunized for a disease to be kept at bay, generally considered to be between 92 and 95 percent â€" for diseases like diphtheria and measles, among others.

The latter, for instance, is making a resurgence: So far this year, Russia has seen a 13-fold increase, following a trend in Europe and in the United States. In August, the World Health Organization singled out Russia alongside six other European countries for having more than 1,000 cases.

This state of affairs has the Kremlin’s attention. In March, President Vladimir Putin said on national television he was considering taking measures because “it has become trendy not to vaccinate your kids.” ...

[Shiranu]

Because the US media in every medium is louder than any other. English is very widely understood.  I think American culture is very suitable to create conspiracy theories. Because the federal state is abnormally powerful, you can also make money from this.

This actually made me curious about a bigger game-plan...

By destabilizing American society, and through our dominance of "world" (or most of it) media, you have the beneficial side effect of destabilizing all the Western bloc & it's allies. I wonder though what our cultural influence on countries like Russia, or more importantly, China is? While we tear ourselves and our allies apart... China keeps itself isolated and allows only what it wants in to it's population.

To use vaccinations... besides controlling the influence of the Anti-Vaxx movement in China the state also mandates that all it's population shale be vaccinated.

To me, it seems like a faux-win/win/win to all parties involved; at the lowest tier, the greedy benefit from conspiracy theories for their personal gain. The middleman, Russia, benefits in it's creation of turmoil amongst the West, diminishing their safeguards against Russian encroachment. And above them all, China sits back and consolidates more power while everyone else weakens themselves and focuses on their internal affairs rather than global influence. Of course at the end of it, there is really only one winner.

Xi Jinping has spent trillions of dollars in solidifying and expanding Chinese influence across the globe, and he ruthlessly and effectively manages a nation of of nearly 1.4 billion people. He clearly is an extremely shrewd man and most likely has surrounded himself with others nearly as cunning as him. He has clearly begun to demand that China become the center of the world again... and influencing the West to divide and tear itself apart would be very effective way of helping that come to pass.

Of course, 99% chance that is all just seeing shadows and jumping at them. But I am American... that is kinda our thing.

[drunkenshoe]

To me, it seems like a faux-win/win/win to all parties involved; at the lowest tier, the greedy benefit from conspiracy theories for their personal gain.

I agree. Also, it looks as a stupid big game to me. How are they going to do it? It's already destabilised in many ways. It doesn't affect the country. It's too big. The scale is different as we say. People are not living on top of each other. One state is not like the other. It's fucking 50 countries.

So the US has an advantage these countries don't. Actually, no country has it, but the US. It's very young and heterogeneous, doesn't matter what the policies are. Not just 'diverse', I mean something else. You don't need to be born in the USA to be an American. However, that is not the case with Russia or China. You are Russian and Chinese, if you are Russian and Chinese. And the world is getting smaller and smaller.

And people continously create their own cultures doesn't matter how vapid, crazy and pointless in the US. Uncle Sam watches them as long as it is not a real threat. "Kids, play with anything you want, say-advocate anything you want; just behave and know your boundries or you won't even notice how fast and harsh I will correct it." LOL the moment anything becomes a real threat, noone will even notice it gone. Sometimes, I think even Americans don't get this, lol. Well, it's how good they are. Otherwise, you don't get to dominate the world.   

That's why American culture is very easy to consume; export and easily accssible by anyone. It's for everyone. Not just for you, also for me to consume from over here. That's the design. From simple products to social media; from conspiracies, to certain groups, to entertainment...name it. That's how the country is managed, if you will. The fortress of capitalism. Is there any other way? (US also has the economical and military power to respond to a domestic crisis of any kind.)   

How are they going to destabilise a society like this? So many choices, concepts, things, ways of being...I am not sure what does that tell you, but it is like that to an outsider. There are only certain scale of 'things' in Russia or China or anywhere else.

I am really not trying to shit on one and champion the other. It's the cultures of these countries.

For a plan like that to work, they need to collapse this American identity. LOL ?! How? Which one? From where? Despite of everything that has been going on, that's not gonna happen. There is no cultural influence or ideology to do that. Not just in the US, nowhere.

If they are upset that American culture is in Russia or China or anywhere else -and yes it is- then they need to find something to replace it. LOL It's everywhere with its good or bad. There is no escape from American culture.   

[Shiranu]

I agree. Also, it looks as a stupid big game to me. How are they going to do it? It's already destabilised in many ways. It doesn't affect the country. It's too big. The scale is different as we say. People are not living on top of each other. One state is not like the other. It's fucking 50 countries.

That's something most foreigners (and most Americans) don't seem to understand.

LOL the moment anything becomes a real threat, noone will even notice it gone. Sometimes, I think even Americans don't get this, lol. Well, it's how good they are. Otherwise, you don't get to dominate the world.   

From the inside looking in, it feels like that is much more that we grow bored with anything of importance, with a lasting message, than it being a case of the powerful shutting it down. Our attention span is measured more in months at best than years, decades.

How are they going to destabilise a society like this? So many choices, concepts, things, ways of being...I am not sure what does that tell you, but it is like that to an outsider. There are only certain scale of 'things' in Russia or China or anywhere else.

I feel like that is exactly why it would be so easy to destabilise. First, we are inherently incredibly divided... from, as you said, at a state level we are essentially 50 countries, to a cultural level of regional differences and cultural/ethnic backgrounds, to an individual level of politics or conspiracy theories like vaccinations. The job of dividing us has already been done by anyone who wants to drive wedges into those divides, all they have to do is pour fuel on the fire and watch us tear at each others' throats.

For a plan like that to work, they need to collapse this American identity. LOL ?! How? Which one? From where? Despite of everything that has been going on, that's not gonna happen. There is no cultural influence or ideology to do that. Not just in the US, nowhere.

America is useful divided, not collapsed. The Chinese economy is intrinsically linked to ours; as you said, we are still the (or the second) economic superpower of the world. If we fall, we take everyone with us... there is nothing to gain in that. But, keep us divided and our attention shifted and you can slowly but surely increase your power and influence over the rest of the world while we are distracted and unable to do anything about it.

There is no escape from American culture.   

Perhaps not, or not yet... but they can suppress it long enough for their culture to become the dominant culture, for their social networks to become the most used social networks.

Dominate cultures change... the British, French, Spanish, Arabs, Romans, Greeks, Egyptians can all attest to that. They all let their power slipped, and someone came in to replace them. It might not happen in our life times that Chinese becomes the dominate cultural power of the world, but it will be standing at least toe to toe with us. A few generations of them spreading their culture to Africa, the rest of Asia, even making inroads into Eastern Europe and having the economic dominance... and who knows?

[Baruch]

Destabilization?  So that is called elections.  Because people might not vote the way the German Raj likes?  Or is that how the Turkish Caliphate likes?  You people (not unlike other people BTW) are so into political fantasy (Manchurian Candidate) that I wouldn't let such psychopaths vote for dog catcher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSHaVH9HhfI

Your psycho bigotry toward Russians resembles the Protocols of the Elders of Zion

[drunkenshoe]

But they have to compromise their own culture to do that which has already happened by the way. Why do you think China wants to censor everything? Because they just want to cover their shit? Or Russia is trying to turn things the other way around. I am sure the US does the same thing, not the point. They want to keep it away as much as possible. Same thing going on where I live. It works up to a point, but then it turns the home culture into itself. 

Because racing with the dominant culture of capitalism, requires adopting that culture. Nobody is out of that system, not even terrorist organisations. Capitalism does not respect culture in an original sense or value, it is just a product to sell. And if you cannot change the system -which is a joke- it is American culture with soya sauce in the end.

Or let's say, they managed to change it in their own terms. This time as I said above, it is Chinese culture for Chinese people.   

See, American culture speaks to personal promotion, conformism, competition by using the greatest concepts of Western culture. What are those? Freedom. Civil rights. Ancient cultures are not based on any of those concepts.Doesn't matter if is real or not, it is not, it is commercial. But that's the system. It's the sales pitch and what you provide. China can provide, produce in massive numbers, yes, but what are those?

What is that China will create-produce so different, we will buy that will change our lives; that we will want to adopt Chinese way of life, culture and so promote, argue with its traditions, notions and terms? How are they going to make people own up to it? Just being against the US? Well, if they pitch that they need to deliver something to replace and again that's going back the beginning.

We do that with American culture, you know. We criticise it, we fucking scream at it, we bash it; we blame it for everything ffs, because it's also ours, not just yours. I know Americans don't get that, probably sounds weird and funny. People in the other countries, in the world don't get it either. They just do it, lol. But that's the thing, they do not need to.

I am not saying in any case, 'Oh American culture is the best', nowhere near, lol. I am saying, it brought a change long time ago and people adopted it even if they wanted or not. But then they got some things out of it.

What is it that I am getting out from Chinese or Russian cultures?       

[drunkenshoe]

Destabilization?  So that is called elections.  Because people might not vote the way the German Raj likes?  Or is that how the Turkish Caliphate likes?  You people (not unlike other people BTW) are so into political fantasy (Manchurian Candidate) that I wouldn't let such psychopaths vote for dog catcher.

Your psycho bigotry toward Russians resembles the Protocols of the Elders of Zion

Make some sense.

[Hydra009]

I wonder though what our cultural influence on countries like Russia, or more importantly, China is?

I'm not entirely sure, but I do know that when "controversy" pops up in the US, it tends to spread to Canada, the UK, and Australia (among others, but those seem to be the main ones affected).

For example, when creationism "teach the controversy" peaked here, it got a following in Australia with Ken Ham and company.  Though, come to think of it, Answers in Genesis was founded in Australia decades ago and then spread to the US, so it's anyone's guess who spread it to whom.

[Hydra009]

Make some sense.

^ asking a turtle to do ballet

[Unbeliever]

Like this?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEUQWpm360s

[Baruch]

Make some sense.

As a Turk, your country has had serious battles with Russia for centuries now.  Your relationship to them must be entirely different than that of the US.  Until 1946, the relationship between the US and Russia was mutually supportive (against GB).  Do you have any cultural/historical context?  Or just the latest application of literary criticism theory to historical events?  Post-modernism is a literary criticism movement … that has recently been rebranded.

So you you fear Russia?  If so, why? (I think you have reasons).  I don't fear Russia.  I have reasons.  It is perfectly reasonable to me, depending on what Erdogan does, that the US and Russia will be allies again, as we usually are, and if necessary, with Turkey as an opponent.  It is an entirely different problem for GB.  Traditionally, GB is an enemy of the US.  To me, Brexit means … retain Atlantic strategy of alliance with the US.  Remain means … retain EU strategy of hostility to the US.  As such, I see no reason to go to war for Merkel against Russia.

[Baruch]

^ asking a turtle to do ballet

My turtle doesn't do ballet ;-)

Y'all accept the Chinese/Democrat propaganda, like the drones you are? I haven't forgotten who supported Al "Chinese" Gore in 2000. It is false flag.  China and Russia are allies.  I haven't forgotten Uranium One.  The CIA is using Russia/China as good cop/bad cop … and maybe Russia/China are part of the deception.  R & D support Russia/China as much as they can.  All our candidates are Manchurian Candidates … bwahah.

Next y'all will be claiming that the KKK was a conspiracy by the Russian Czar.

US media, both conventional and Internet, are a megaphone for stupidity, 100x greater than Russian propaganda.

[drunkenshoe]

As a Turk, your country has had serious battles with Russia for centuries now.  Your relationship to them must be entirely different than that of the US.  Until 1946, the relationship between the US and Russia was mutually supportive (against GB).  Do you have any cultural/historical context?  Or just the latest application of literary criticism theory to historical events?  Post-modernism is a literary criticism movement … that has recently been rebranded.

So you you fear Russia?  If so, why? (I think you have reasons).  I don't fear Russia.  I have reasons.  It is perfectly reasonable to me, depending on what Erdogan does, that the US and Russia will be allies again, as we usually are, and if necessary, with Turkey as an opponent.  It is an entirely different problem for GB.  Traditionally, GB is an enemy of the US.  To me, Brexit means … retain Atlantic strategy of alliance with the US.  Remain means … retain EU strategy of hostility to the US.  As such, I see no reason to go to war for Merkel against Russia.

I'll just explain it with an example. But before that, I am not a 'Turk'. You have never met a Turk. I am just Turkish, lol. If you enjoy calling me Turk,that's OK. But you should know the difference.

This will sound pretty discriminating, but I don't care.   

I don't know how to explain 'luggage trade' to Americans so, I'll just go on from my point. Did you know that there has been an immigration from Russia to Turkey? Esp. women? It started long time ago. I am not talking about the huge amount of women who comes over here for prostitution. It's not my place to judge their position. But the white female trafficking concerning slav women, esp. Ukrainian and Russian is a gangren wound, Russia doesn't care much about.

Women have no value in Russia. It's worse for lgbt groups. Russia is fucked up on any kind of human rights. They have this very similar culture to us. It took me years to realise that a lot of Russian women marry Turkish men, because Turkish men actually care about them with similar culture. And they couldn't get a better life. But which class of Turkish men. LOL that's the point.

Think about it like this. Russia is US; Turkey is Mexico and American women are going to Mexico to marry; to build a life; some are for prostitution. How does that sound?   

Anyway, Russia will do anything to go down to Mediterranean, as they have done in history. They armed Armenians before, you know how that ended right?

So it is not fearing Russia. I don't like their culture. Esp. because they actually had an elightenment period and arrived here. Putin, Erdogan, Trump... they are all the same shit for me. They will do anything, not caring about any kind of balance as noone wants them in Mediteranean they won't be able. People just will pay with their lives. They are now. In many ways. They don't fucking care about their own to begin with.

Brexit is not gonna happen. And I actually started to think that they knew this.