Author Topic: General political theory ...  (Read 1672 times)

Offline Baruch

General political theory ...
« on: April 27, 2019, 09:39:02 AM »
From Athens and Rome, thru Machiavelli, to the Federalist Papers:

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Marx is right that society is war of eveyone against everyone else.  Marx is wrong that there is any solution to this, other than extinction.  But people being weak, divide into faction to leverage their greed.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2019, 11:07:42 PM »
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From Athens and Rome, thru Machiavelli, to the Federalist Papers:

Marx is right that society is war of eveyone against everyone else.  Marx is wrong that there is any solution to this, other than extinction.  But people being weak, divide into faction to leverage their greed.

J'accuse Sally Strawberry with the hammer in the garden...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2019, 12:09:21 AM »
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J'accuse Sally Strawberry with the hammer in the garden...

Hammer and sickle.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2019, 09:43:40 AM »
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Hammer and sickle.

Never played 'Clue'?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2019, 12:05:48 PM »
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Never played 'Clue'?

But you played "marxism" in polysci class, right??
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2019, 07:00:14 PM »
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But you played "marxism" in polysci class, right??

No. 

OK, but this will annoy the heck out of you...  In a senior/graduate level seminar of 8 people, we were assigned to take sides in a discussion.  I was assigned to a side I could not agree with.  So I refused.  That's when I realized I was never going to be a lawyer, LSAT score be damned...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2019, 08:47:02 AM »
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No. 

OK, but this will annoy the heck out of you...  In a senior/graduate level seminar of 8 people, we were assigned to take sides in a discussion.  I was assigned to a side I could not agree with.  So I refused.  That's when I realized I was never going to be a lawyer, LSAT score be damned...

I am proud of you, not annoyed.  But I think the teachers approach was typical (per Socrates).
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 02:28:28 AM »
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I am proud of you, not annoyed.  But I think the teachers approach was typical (per Socrates).

She stressed that the ability to argue was important.   As did old Soc too, I suppose.   

But one fact she missed was that while she was accustomed to teaching young 20-somethings who were "only" students, I was a 40s person with a real career with a long history involving arguing with experts, and that if I didn't agree with an idea, I wasn't going to argue for it. 

She didn't like that much.  And I wasn't sitting there like a student. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2019, 04:48:12 AM »
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She stressed that the ability to argue was important.   As did old Soc too, I suppose.   

But one fact she missed was that while she was accustomed to teaching young 20-somethings who were "only" students, I was a 40s person with a real career with a long history involving arguing with experts, and that if I didn't agree with an idea, I wasn't going to argue for it. 

She didn't like that much.  And I wasn't sitting there like a student.

In the end, at my work, it was hard to take orders from 40 year olds, who themselves were senior staff.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2019, 04:55:56 AM »
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In the end, at my work, it was hard to take orders from 40 year olds, who themselves were senior staff.

Well, it matters whether they were qualified for their jobs.  If so, its hierarchy.  If not, fine, you surrounded by idiots.  So which was it and why?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2019, 05:05:19 AM »
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Well, it matters whether they were qualified for their jobs.  If so, its hierarchy.  If not, fine, you surrounded by idiots.  So which was it and why?

The military has a precise system for "qualified for job" ... not perfect, but I think better than the civilian version  They micromanage military folks.  GS have lives outside of work, mostly.  There are cases in system development, where officers are outside their competence, and those usually are disasters.

But sorry ... I had no problem tolerating people my own age, but younger people are just children playing dress up.  The youngest having less responsibility.  And all of them making normal human errors and foibles.  And the hierarchy is mostly respected and functional.  So just a relative aging problem.  The unit didn't have problems beyond what you should expect.

Like society in general, after 20 years you just about have filtered out the failures, and the remainder know how to do their jobs ... an then they retire.  Physically we can't keep them longer, so this is a magnified version of what happens in the civilian world.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2019, 05:26:11 AM »
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The military has a precise system for "qualified for job" ... not perfect, but I think better than the civilian version  They micromanage military folks.  GS have lives outside of work, mostly.  There are cases in system development, where officers are outside their competence, and those usually are disasters.

But sorry ... I had no problem tolerating people my own age, but younger people are just children playing dress up.  The youngest having less responsibility.  And all of them making normal human errors and foibles.  And the hierarchy is mostly respected and functional.  So just a relative aging problem.  The unit didn't have problems beyond what you should expect.

Like society in general, after 20 years you just about have filtered out the failures, and the remainder know how to do their jobs ... an then they retire.  Physically we can't keep them longer, so this is a magnified version of what happens in the civilian world.

Well, your ageism makes sense given your monarchial hierarchy views.  But I disagree.  In the first office I worked in, I was immediately recognized by older Management as the best worker.  I went from a temp to being given the most important accounts in the office within a year.  The other account managers were older but deadwood.  After 2 years, I was assigned to do "an important project" I shouldn't mention, usually assigned to much more senior people.  Etc, etc...

Your assumption that younger people can't do superior work is insulting.  When I was older, I recognized that the best worker in the office (other than myself of course) was a mid 20s person with a lot of promise.  She got my job when I left.  Age has little to do with talent.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2019, 05:30:57 AM »
Yep, a regular übermensch.  Hence no, I don't want you in charge of anything.

I was more capable at 60 than at 40, more at 40 than at 20.  Ageism?  Go ask your Mummy.

You can't be a movie "mary sue" because this isn't a movie and you aren't a young woman.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2019, 05:56:52 AM »
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Yep, a regular übermensch.  Hence no, I don't want you in charge of anything.

I was more capable at 60 than at 40, more at 40 than at 20.  Ageism?  Go ask your Mummy.

You can't be a movie "mary sue" because this isn't a movie and you aren't a young woman.

What on Earth is a "mary sue"?

But what you were at 60 has nothing to do with what someone ELSE was at 20.  I was better in my first office at 26 (when I started) then the others were in their 50s.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: General political theory ...
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2019, 08:52:25 AM »
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What on Earth is a "mary sue"?

But what you were at 60 has nothing to do with what someone ELSE was at 20.  I was better in my first office at 26 (when I started) then the others were in their 50s.

Are you a Benjamin Button?  That is why you were 60 when you were 20?

"mary sue" is a neologism for a young woman character in stories who has remarkable heroine abilities in spite of not having trained etc ... a deus ex machina with boobs.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

 

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