Hitchens on Orwell on Totalitarianism ....

[Baruch]

how communism isn't progressive, and not the cure for fascism ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY5Ste5xRAA

In other words, both fascism and communism are socialism.  Socialism is a denial of human nature, the muddy mess it is.

Miiitant Islam drove Hitchens back into the arms of Anglo imperialism.  Which is what Wilson's war is all about.  Though not effective in driving him back to England and into the Anglican Church.

[Cavebear]

how communism isn't progressive, and not the cure for fascism ...

In other words, both fascism and communism are socialism.  Socialism is a denial of human nature, the muddy mess it is.

Miiitant Islam drove Hitchens back into the arms of Anglo imperialism.  Which is what Wilson's war is all about.  Though not effective in driving him back to England and into the Anglican Church.

Both Soviet communism and German nazism were extreme socialist ideas.  Both demanded that political thought and industrialization be subservient to The State.  Socialism is not limited to The Left or The Right, it works both ways.

When I was in college in the late 60s, political ideology was presented linearly with Nazis on one end and Communists at the other with Democracy in the middle.  I recognized that wasn't really accurate and had arguments with the Professors.  I wasn't a popular student. 

As I considered it then, and as it is more agreed now, it is more a set theory diagram in a triangle of overlapping circles. In such a diagram, there is one spot in the center that represents some blend of the 3.  That may be "social democracy", but we will have to try it first to see.

[Baruch]

Correct ... because you are actually educated in an earlier era.  Don't count on today's college kids having heard what you said.  The hippies are now the professors.

[Cavebear]

Correct ... because you are actually educated in an earlier era.  Don't count on today's college kids having heard what you said.  The hippies are now the professors.

I'm a hippie...  I'm also a baby-boomer.  And a radical moderate former Republican.  And a Progressive.  And a real boy scout.  And a gardener,  And I plant flowers.  And I might be the best pinball player you ever met.  And I have trophies (earned) in tennis, baseball, bowling, and chess, and letterred in soccer.  And a Trump-hater. 

You never know about some people...

[Baruch]

I'm a hippie...  I'm also a baby-boomer.  And a radical moderate former Republican.  And a Progressive.  And a real boy scout.  And a gardener,  And I plant flowers.  And I might be the best pinball player you ever met.  And I have trophies (earned) in tennis, baseball, bowling, and chess, and letterred in soccer.  And a Trump-hater. 

You never know about some people...

I don't think you were ever a hippie, just another disaffected college student.  Did you die from drug overdose and STD?  Progressive today is cultural Marxist.  The most progressive program of all time ... feminism is mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWB42mxVNc

The communists of 1848 ... are the socialists of today.  They can deceptively deny their connection to the Bolsheviks and other violent revolutionaries.  The Labor Party which is strong in GB since the 1920s, is Fabian Socialism.  We get what we want, one step at a time.

Young men with a pen ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toeib1Xd4Pk

Neither Marx nor Engles worked an honest days work their whole lives.  One a grifter, the other inherited wealth.  Soy boys.

[Cavebear]

I don't think you were ever a hippie, just another disaffected college student.  Did you die from drug overdose and STD?  Progressive today is cultural Marxist.  The most progressive program of all time ... feminism is mentioned.


The communists of 1848 ... are the socialists of today.  They can deceptively deny their connection to the Bolsheviks and other violent revolutionaries.  The Labor Party which is strong in GB since the 1920s, is Fabian Socialism.  We get what we want, one step at a time.

Young men with a pen ...

Neither Marx nor Engles worked an honest days work their whole lives.  One a grifter, the other inherited wealth.  Soy boys.

Nailed me.  I always WAS secretly a Republican...

[Baruch]

Nailed me.  I always WAS secretly a Republican...

You owned a nail factory, you Capitalist wrecker you! ;-)

[Cavebear]

You owned a nail factory, you Capitalist wrecker you! ;-)

And I'll corner the market on nails one day too, adding to my fabulous riches,  heh-heh-heh...

Seriously, does that mean you diminish thinking?  Marx wrote a book after all.  Have you?

[Baruch]

And I'll corner the market on nails one day too, adding to my fabulous riches,  heh-heh-heh...

Seriously, does that mean you diminish thinking?  Marx wrote a book after all.  Have you?

The big book, Das Capital, was ghost written by Engels.  As per the short historical video, Engels was involved from the beginning.  So who wrote what part?  Kind of like, who really wrote Shakespeare's plays?  Hitler wrote Main Kampf, I am glad I am not an author if that was my choice of writing.

[Cavebear]

The big book, Das Capital, was ghost written by Engels.  As per the short historical video, Engels was involved from the beginning.  So who wrote what part?  Kind of like, who really wrote Shakespeare's plays?  Hitler wrote Main Kampf, I am glad I am not an author if that was my choice of writing.

Well, Engels, yeah, but they fed off each other.  Like Wilbur and Orville Wright.  Wilbur did all the work and Orville flew the plane...

[Baruch]

Well, Engels, yeah, but they fed off each other.  Like Wilbur and Orville Wright.  Wilbur did all the work and Orville flew the plane...

A good comparison.  Engels stayed in the shadows, Marx was the PR guy.  Also maybe a better beard.

[Cavebear]

A good comparison.  Engels stayed in the shadows, Marx was the PR guy.  Also maybe a better beard.

Beards (or moustashes) matter.  Hitler had a tiny moustashe in WWII because the heavy ones popular at the time made the gas masks fit poorly and sent him to the hospital for weeks.

[Baruch]

Beards (or moustashes) matter.  Hitler had a tiny moustashe in WWII because the heavy ones popular at the time made the gas masks fit poorly and sent him to the hospital for weeks.

Yep.  Most ladies will never grasp this ;-)

[drunkenshoe]

At this side of the world, it's common knowledge that Engels continously contributed, edited a lot of Marx's writings. They practically lived together in this sense. But when you say 'ghost writing' it sounds as if Engels was the actual writer which is incorrect. But yes, traditional Marxist archives usually named as 'Marx-Engels Archives'. Not as 'Marx Archives'. I don't know if it is different now.   

Marx and Engels have met in 1844. And before that Marx have written about the state, alienation, democracy and of course dissecting Hegel. Not to mention his letters about main issues. As a personality, Marx is very vocal, furious and writes with spirit. Which by the way affects Engels deeply in the first place.

If you ask me these two men have lived happily married in an intellectual sense, but Marx is the conservative, dominant and the brilliant one. 

[Cavebear]

At this side of the world, it's common knowledge that Engels continously contributed, edited a lot of Marx's writings. They practically lived together in this sense. But when you say 'ghost writing' it sounds as if Engels was the actual writer which is incorrect. But yes, traditional Marxist archives usually named as 'Marx-Engels Archives'. Not as 'Marx Archives'. I don't know if it is different now.   

Marx and Engels have met in 1844. And before that Marx have written about the state, alienation, democracy and of course dissecting Hegel. Not to mention his letters about main issues. As a personality, Marx is very vocal, furious and writes with spirit. Which by the way affects Engels deeply in the first place.

If you ask me these two men have lived happily married in an intellectual sense, but Marx is the conservative, dominant and the brilliant one.

When I was taking political science classes back in the early 70s, it was always Marx/Engels as basically equals.  Sometimes with a slight nudge to Engels...