The Greatest Ever Infographic - Napoleon in Russia

[Cavebear]

Correct about French intervention (also Spain and Denmark).  You are a little off.  Not Canadian, Texan.  "Spanner" doesn't fit the metaphor but it sounds good.  Poetic license.  What we call the French & Indian War ... aka Seven Years War in Europe happened two decades earlier.  Unless you want to count the War of the Spanish Succession as the first major coalition war that involved Britain and France.

Huh, I really thought you mentioned being Canadian once.  Must have someone else...

You specifically mentioned "Then they had our nuts in a spanner (britishism)" which is indeed very British but also Canadian in some places.

I know about the 7 years War/French and Indian War.  It's where Washington got his colonial rank.  But there was a larger one later.  Read this and weep at your ignorance...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-French_War_(1778%E2%80%931783)

[Baruch]

Yes, France had multiple reasons for fighting the British Empire, some as far away as India (where they lost).  Otherwise the main lingua franca of India would be French, not English.

[Cavebear]

Yes, France had multiple reasons for fighting the British Empire, some as far away as India (where they lost).  Otherwise the main lingua franca of India would be French, not English.

It wasn't that the French (half my ancestors) lost the first real WW, it is that is was fought world-wide...  That's like saying WWII never happened because the Germans lost.

[Baruch]

It wasn't that the French (half my ancestors) lost the first real WW, it is that is was fought world-wide...  That's like saying WWII never happened because the Germans lost.

Alternative history fantasy is just a circle jerk (if you have allies).

[Cavebear]

Alternative history fantasy is just a circle jerk (if you have allies).

Just out of curiosity, WHY do you think the French had a massive navy in a Caribbeans available for sending to Yorktown to trap the British army there and the British didn't have one to drive them away? 

I LOVE alternative history.  But this isn't one of them.

[Baruch]

Just out of curiosity, WHY do you think the French had a massive navy in a Caribbeans available for sending to Yorktown to trap the British army there and the British didn't have one to drive them away? 

I LOVE alternative history.  But this isn't one of them.

ooh, ooh ... guy from Car 54 Where Are You .

My recollection is that the British are generally very good, covering the French fleet, wherever they may be.  The British Empire was big, and so the French could sail for many targets.  The British had to defend all of them simultaneously.  This is why is was critical in the Napoleonic wars, for the British Navy to keep the French fleets in port.  Once DeGrasse was on the high seas, he was like the Bismarck.  And even in WW II, it took a long time at sea to get from point A to point B.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_Joseph_Paul_de_Grasse

The British fleet in the area, must have lost track of him, or were unable to concentrate sufficient forces to unblock the Chesapeake.  Under optimum conditions the French usually lost to the British.  The llmitations of the time, and luck, worked for the French that time.  Not as well later in the war.

[Cavebear]

ooh, ooh ... guy from Car 54 Where Are You .

My recollection is that the British are generally very good, covering the French fleet, wherever they may be.  The British Empire was big, and so the French could sail for many targets.  The British had to defend all of them simultaneously.  This is why is was critical in the Napoleonic wars, for the British Navy to keep the French fleets in port.  Once DeGrasse was on the high seas, he was like the Bismarck.  And even in WW II, it took a long time at sea to get from point A to point B.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_Joseph_Paul_de_Grasse

The British fleet in the area, must have lost track of him, or were unable to concentrate sufficient forces to unblock the Chesapeake.  Under optimum conditions the French usually lost to the British.  The llmitations of the time, and luck, worked for the French that time.  Not as well later in the war.

I actually agree with you on some points.  But that's what makes it a World War.  Too many sites to protect all at once and a failure on one side to see the strategy of the other.  I didn't say the French were winning OR had a better navy, just that they saw a good opportunity and took it in the Chesapeake Bay to help the Americans catch the Cornwallis army in a corner (after the serious blunders he made in the Carolinas, I might add).

[Baruch]

Yes.  And the whole Yorktown operation was an opportunistic combined-arms battle, that was very close.  The British navy was ready to attack again, 2 days after Cornwallis surrendered.  If Washington hadn't been provided with French siege guns by the French fleet, Cornwallis could have held out longer.

[Cavebear]

Yes.  And the whole Yorktown operation was an opportunistic combined-arms battle, that was very close.  The British navy was ready to attack again, 2 days after Cornwallis surrendered.  If Washington hadn't been provided with French siege guns by the French fleet, Cornwallis could have held out longer.

The French navy under Compte de Grasse defeated the British navy under Thomas Graves in the lower Chesapeake.  Graves left the scene in defeat. 

Are you SURE you want to keep losing this discussion, or do you have an alternative British history book tucked under your pillow?

[Baruch]

The French navy under Compte de Grasse defeated the British navy under Thomas Graves in the lower Chesapeake.  Graves left the scene in defeat. 

Are you SURE you want to keep losing this discussion, or do you have an alternative British history book tucked under your pillow?

So you are saying ... the British won are Yorktown?  I don't see we are different, the facts are the facts.  If the British were better coordinated with the right resources in the right places, DeGrasse would have lost, and the French reinforcements/artillery would have gone to the bottom.

[Cavebear]

So you are saying ... the British won are Yorktown?  I don't see we are different, the facts are the facts.  If the British were better coordinated with the right resources in the right places, DeGrasse would have lost, and the French reinforcements/artillery would have gone to the bottom.

No.  Yes.  IF...  If wishes were horses, beggars would ride...

IF Hitler hadn't attacked Russia, you would be Deutsch sprechen.  IF Ceasar hadn't crossed the Rubicon, etc etc, etc.

[Baruch]

No.  Yes.  IF...  If wishes were horses, beggars would ride...

IF Hitler hadn't attacked Russia, you would be Deutsch sprechen.  IF Ceasar hadn't crossed the Rubicon, etc etc, etc.

I thought you wanted to talk alternative history here at this time.  Have you have your nap?