Goodwill: Pays some disable employes pennies an hour

[Jmpty]

It can take years to get disability, if ever. Took me 3years, during which I was basically homeless and living on 60 bucks a month for food.

Also, disability is based either on your prior income, or if you never had any, minimum wage. You get a percentage of one of those. Most disabled people get 400 to 500 a month, that is hardly enough to live on. Certainly those living at home, or in a home, that may be sufficient, but what about those who are capable of self care, but not full time regular employment? Such as the blind or amputees? They need to earn just as much as you to live, and disability rarely covers it all. If a disabled person needs to supliment disability, or earn a full income, they are SOL.

And some would defend paying a blind person pennies per hour because they work slower? Hey, lets time everyone everywhere in every job, the way they time the disabled people, and base your wages on that. Then if you are not as fast as other people in your company, they can pay YOU less, even though you are doing the same job. Sound fair? Have a headache that day? Too bad, your wages are now halved for the next 6 months.
It would be barbaric to do it to "normal" people, right? Pay them less than minimum wage if they are not at peek performance? Then why is it ok to do it to those already suffering a disability?

Guess what, if it comes down to pay them minimum wage, or hire someone else, then they won't be working there anymore. Period.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Read the criticism of Goodwill and their unfair business practices. They use an old depression era loophole in the labor laws or they would go belly up within a few years.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodwill_Industries

[Aroura33]

It can take years to get disability, if ever. Took me 3years, during which I was basically homeless and living on 60 bucks a month for food.

Also, disability is based either on your prior income, or if you never had any, minimum wage. You get a percentage of one of those. Most disabled people get 400 to 500 a month, that is hardly enough to live on. Certainly those living at home, or in a home, that may be sufficient, but what about those who are capable of self care, but not full time regular employment? Such as the blind or amputees? They need to earn just as much as you to live, and disability rarely covers it all. If a disabled person needs to supliment disability, or earn a full income, they are SOL.

And some would defend paying a blind person pennies per hour because they work slower? Hey, lets time everyone everywhere in every job, the way they time the disabled people, and base your wages on that. Then if you are not as fast as other people in your company, they can pay YOU less, even though you are doing the same job. Sound fair? Have a headache that day? Too bad, your wages are now halved for the next 6 months.
It would be barbaric to do it to "normal" people, right? Pay them less than minimum wage if they are not at peek performance? Then why is it ok to do it to those already suffering a disability?

Guess what, if it comes down to pay them minimum wage, or hire someone else, then they won't be working there anymore. Period.

So say the defenders of unfair labor laws everywhere.

My local Safeway hires disabled and elderly people at MORE than federal minimum wage.  One mentally diabled person bags groceries, been there for years.  My grandpa used to collect carts before he passed away.  Both of them are MUCH slower than a healthy non-disabled person, and yet, this other organization manages to employ them and pay them fairly....hmmm.

It's a bullshit argument.  If Goodwill wants to exploit people and call it charity, it's bullshit.  Especially when the CEO's are making 6 figures.  Non-profit...yeah right.  If the labor loophole was closed, I doubt Goodwill would suddenly go out of business, actually.  their CEO's might have to take a paycut.  Maybe the disabled people that DON'T need the money will work their as volunteers, if Goodwill starts recruiting that way.  They would have to re-work the current set up, but they could certainly do it.  

And you totally sidestepped the question of if it would be acceptable to do it to you and other non-disabled people.  Would it, or would it be an unfair labor practice?

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

Huh, many of the used compact discs I order off of Amazon.com are from Goodwill sellers. Not ordering from them anymore.

Also, a bit of an aside into tipping. How about the business pay its workers a decent amount instead of letting the business get a work force for essentially nothing? Don't give me any bullshit either, you can pay a restaurant worker decently when you charge five fucking dollars for fried and breaded cheese sticks.

[Smartmarzipan]

Dammit. I already refuse to give to The Salvation Army, and now Goodwill does this. There is one other charity in my area (locally-run), so I hope they're on the up and up. It's sad that it's getting harder and harder to donate to charities. :/

[Smartmarzipan]

Huh, many of the used compact discs I order off of Amazon.com are from Goodwill sellers. Not ordering from them anymore.

Also, a bit of an aside into tipping. How about the business pay its workers a decent amount instead of letting the business get a work force for essentially nothing? Don't give me any bullshit either, you can pay a restaurant worker decently when you charge five fucking dollars for fried and breaded cheese sticks.

That isn't really true. After working in the restaurant business for a while, both local stores and corporate chains, food prices would definitely go up if you raised wages. I'm not saying that shouldn't happen, but food prices would get higher.

Tips are replacement wages. Whether you tip or you get charged a higher food price, you're still paying roughly the same amount. The only difference is that the control is in your hands and is based off of the service you received.

Anyway, I don't want to derail. Perhaps we should start a different thread to talk about the food service industry?

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Not every restaurant has tipping customers.  I've known a LOT of waitresses who have worked for Frisches's (Big Boy chain) and the customers there are notoriously bad tippers so the girls and women busting their asses there for you are living on barely more than slave wages. They have a HUGE turnover..

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

I tip $4 regardless of the service I receive or how much I spend on the meal. I tend to frequent cheap sit down places, but when I go to more expensive places I'll still tip the same amount.

Someone bringing me $15 worth of food over 4-5 hours at a Coney Island is doing more work than someone bringing me and 2 others $50 worth of expensive food at Olive Garden over the course of like 40 minutes. The restaurant worker at the upscale place shouldn't get paid more for less effort just to adhere to some arbitrary 20% tip rule. And likewise, the worker at the cheaper place shouldn't get cheated out of money because the place they work charges less for their food.

I feel $4 is sufficient. Is it?

[surly74]

I tip $4 regardless of the service I receive or how much I spend on the meal. I tend to frequent cheap sit down places, but when I go to more expensive places I'll still tip the same amount.

Someone bringing me $15 worth of food over 4-5 hours at a Coney Island is doing more work than someone bringing me and 2 others $50 worth of expensive food at Olive Garden over the course of like 40 minutes. The restaurant worker at the upscale place shouldn't get paid more for less effort just to adhere to some arbitrary 20% tip rule. And likewise, the worker at the cheaper place shouldn't get cheated out of money because the place they work charges less for their food.

I feel $4 is sufficient. Is it?

so you stiff some and overtip others based on your ignorant assumptions about the industry...

did you ever think that at a place like Olive Garden wait staff have to split their tips? with each other? with the bus staff? Kitchen?

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

I tip $4 regardless of the service I receive or how much I spend on the meal. I tend to frequent cheap sit down places, but when I go to more expensive places I'll still tip the same amount.

Someone bringing me $15 worth of food over 4-5 hours at a Coney Island is doing more work than someone bringing me and 2 others $50 worth of expensive food at Olive Garden over the course of like 40 minutes. The restaurant worker at the upscale place shouldn't get paid more for less effort just to adhere to some arbitrary 20% tip rule. And likewise, the worker at the cheaper place shouldn't get cheated out of money because the place they work charges less for their food.

I feel $4 is sufficient. Is it?

so you stiff some

According to the arbitrary 20% tip rule.

and overtip others

According to the arbitrary 20% tip rule.

I've had this same discussion with friends and family and eventually the response I receive ends up like this, "You're supposed to tip 20%! 20% of $50 is $10. It's based on 20% of the cost of the meal! 20%! 20%!"

"Oh, so the waitress at the cheepo place doing more work to serve me cheaper food should get less money?"

"B-but you're supposed to tip 20%!"

So the waitress at Coney Island doing more work to serve me more food should get paid less than the waitress at Olive Garden doing less work to serve me less food?

The cost of the food should not matter.

based on your ignorant assumptions about the industry...

did you ever think that at a place like Olive Garden wait staff have to split their tips? with each other? with the bus staff? Kitchen?

did you ever think that at a place like National Coney Island wait staff have to split their tips? with each other? with the bus staff? Kitchen?

[surly74]

did you ever think that at a place like National Coney Island wait staff have to split their tips? with each other? with the bus staff? Kitchen?

are you a parrot? you asked the same question so it's safe to assume you hadn't considered it so this is what you come back with... as for coney island...they probably do. so if both places do you then why do you discriminate against someone where they work? you are generous at Coney Island but penalize people somewhere else.

is it arbitrary or a benchmark? Considering what servers are paid, most would say benchmark.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

I parroted your questions about tip pooling because that can apply to both cheepo places and expensive ones. I don't see how it supports the pro-20% tip argument.

as for coney island...they probably do. so if both places do you then why do you discriminate against someone where they work?

I give servers at both restaurants $4. I'm waiting on the Pizza Hut guy to get here with pizza, he's going to get $4 too.

you are generous at Coney Island but penalize people somewhere else.

How is someone at Olive Garden penalized relative to the Coney worker when they receive a $4 tip from me? Does the Olive Garden meal that costs x2 as much as it would at Coney magically take x2 as much effort to deliver to the patron? No, of course it doesn't. "B-but 20%!"

[Aroura33]

I parroted your questions about tip pooling because that can apply to both cheepo places and expensive ones. I don't see how it supports the pro-20% tip argument.

as for coney island...they probably do. so if both places do you then why do you discriminate against someone where they work?

I give servers at both restaurants $4. I'm waiting on the Pizza Hut guy to get here with pizza, he's going to get $4 too.

you are generous at Coney Island but penalize people somewhere else.

How is someone at Olive Garden penalized relative to the Coney worker when they receive a $4 tip from me? Does the Olive Garden meal that costs x2 as much as it would at Coney magically take x2 as much effort to deliver to the patron? No, of course it doesn't. "B-but 20%!"

It's because you are picking an arbitrary number out of the air based on nothing.  I could insert 50 cents into your argument instead of 4 bucks, and it would make as much sense.
20% is not a rule, it's a guideline.  If you are sitting at this Coney Island place for 4 hours, then yeah, you owe that wait person more than 20%, because you are hogging up more of their time, and more possible tips from that table.  But the SAME should apply to Olive Garden or anywhere.  If you want to base your tip on how much time you spent at a table, then awesome, do that.  But there has to be a rhyme and reason to why you give the waitperson money, such as service quality or something.  

And yeah, the person who had to bring you a hotdog should get a smaller tip than the person who brought you a course of (possible) salads, soup, breadsticks, appatizers, bar drinks, entrée, and dessert.  Due to the nature of the type of food and drink served at higher end restaurants, and given the same amount of time seated, the waitperson probably visits your table 9 or 10 times over the course of a meal, including ensuring you do no not need anything else and that you are enjoying your meal.  At a burger or hotdog stand or greesy spoon, they probably visit you once to take your order, once to deliver the order, and once to make sure you don't need anything else.  3 visits vs 9 or 10.  Hmmm, yeah, same amount of work.  :roll:  

Tipping everyone $4 bucks no matter what you buy, how much time you spend there, or how the service was and acting all noble about it is just asinine.

[surly74]

How is someone at Olive Garden penalized relative to the Coney worker when they receive a $4 tip from me? Does the Olive Garden meal that costs x2 as much as it would at Coney magically take x2 as much effort to deliver to the patron? No, of course it doesn't. "B-but 20%!"

the waitstaff at the Olive Garden get paid the low wage Coney Island would even though the place costs twice the amount. They don't see that increase but because it's a more expensive place you penalize THEM.

And yes, as Aurora pointed out, at the Olive Garden they probably visit you more than at Coney Island so they are doing more than someone at Coney Island. it's not that hard of a concept.

[Plu]

Ya know, if you all had just pointed out the amount of times a worker comes around the table in an upscale place vs. fast food to start with, you wouldn't have to act all arrogant and demeaning to paragoombaslayer first. That's an actual argument against his approach, unlike "omg you ignorant".