Author Topic: Will Heaven last forever?  (Read 4873 times)

Offline SGOS

Re: Will Heaven last forever?
« Reply #120 on: March 25, 2020, 06:24:12 AM »
At the moment of your death, you find yourself in Heaven (or Hell).  At least it will seem that way, because when you die, your biological clock stops.  So even if you lie in the ground for a million years, and people evolve brains as big as prize winning pumpkins, you wake up in heaven with no sense of lost time, but this does not address the question at hand.  Does Heaven last forever?  I have it on good authority that it does, as long as forever lasts forever, but that second condition is not addressed in the Bible.

Offline Baruch

Re: Will Heaven last forever?
« Reply #121 on: March 25, 2020, 06:59:22 AM »
At the moment of your death, you find yourself in Heaven (or Hell).  At least it will seem that way, because when you die, your biological clock stops.  So even if you lie in the ground for a million years, and people evolve brains as big as prize winning pumpkins, you wake up in heaven with no sense of lost time, but this does not address the question at hand.  Does Heaven last forever?  I have it on good authority that it does, as long as forever lasts forever, but that second condition is not addressed in the Bible.

So Christian-parochial!  Not in Buddhism.  Being reincarnated as a god, is worse than being reincarnated as a human.  Humans are the only state-of-living where you can reach Nirvana, and stop reincarnating.  Gods (and anti-Gods) have very long lives of bliss, because of prior good deeds, but the store of good deeds eventually runs out.  In Amida Buddhism, you get reincarnated as a human spirit, in Amida Heaven (multiple heavens) so you have a better chance of learning and practicing Buddhism, so you can reach Nirvana from there (Amida Buddhists are pessimistic about the Kali Yuga we live in now, as far as reaching Nirvana as an Earth-based human)).  In Amida Heaven you are basically a monk/nun.  In Orthodox Judaism, being in Heaven is basically Yeshiva like in Yentl.  You spend eternity studying Jewish law.  Great Jews have Moses as their rabbi ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't to that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Will Heaven last forever?
« Reply #122 on: March 25, 2020, 07:07:19 AM »
Certainly that is true - even the NW translation is not infallible!

[Note: I have a sense of humor - there  are actually a number of revisions of NW - my favorite Bible translation is the 1984 edition = NW ref]

However, with the glaring exception of the removal of the Divine Name, most translations are in agreement in most verses.

On topic (heaven(s)): the first verse in the Bible varies in Bible translations as to whether heaven should be translated in the singular or the plural.   Genesis 1:1 in some translations here:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/dx/r1/lp-e/1001070105/0

Notice that KJV reads singular "heaven" while NW and AS read plural "heavens."   This is especially of interest to me since I am into science and this begs the question as to whether there is more than one universe - some scientists think so btw.

Apostle Paul refers to a "third heaven" ;-)  Popular parlance refers to "7th heaven".  In Orthodox Judaism, there is one heaven, but there is better neighborhoods and worser ones.  The bad neighborhood is Hell (where most of the Gentiles live forever).  Jesus refers to the judged as sheep vs goats.  Usually sheep and goats are herded together (they herd better as a team).  When they are separated, the good sheep are sheered, and the bad goats are tomorrow's lunch.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 11:23:09 AM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't to that.

Offline aitm

Re: Will Heaven last forever?
« Reply #123 on: March 25, 2020, 08:32:21 AM »
Which version of fiction do you prefer with your cereal? "I'll take that one please, it gets rid of the nasty parts that makes milk taste icky while drinking it during breakfast". 

Very good sir, version 124 coming up.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline SGOS

Re: Will Heaven last forever?
« Reply #124 on: March 26, 2020, 10:45:04 AM »
I made up a few variations of religion of my own.  Most were kind of based on Christianity, because where I lived everyone was Judaeo-Christian, but as the years went by, they became less and less related to my birth religion, as I realized that various aspects of the Christian god were not worthy of worship.  Then I took a brief look at other religions, but by that time, I had figured out that all religions were variations of what different people wanted, and of course the big rub, ever since I was a young child, was that there was no credible evidence for any of them.

Now enter the guy that says, "No, no.  There is plenty of evidence, the Bible being the actual word of God."  But if that is all that one requires, there is evidence for any cockamamie thought you can imagine .  In a courtroom, evidence is offered and accepted.  Some even approaches the definition of credible, but actual proof never is, and a god worthy of worship should at a bare minimum, offer proof beyond a shadow of doubt.  Hell, I'd even settle for credible evidence.  But none of the evidence for God that I've seen during my life even rises to the level of "credible." And agreement on the details is sorely lacking.

Some people will settle for a sign from God that he is real.  My father told me a lovely story about his personal sign from God.  He was fishing in a small brook on a vacation, and he was thinking about God and asked for a sign.  There was a brief afternoon thunder shower followed by a rainbow when he hooked a small trout.  As he removed the hook, a stream of blood oozed form the trout's gill which reminded him of the blood shed by Jesus on the cross.  And there, under a brilliant rainbow while holding the trout in his hand as it expired, he knew that God was real.

I wasn't with him.  He told me about it when I was in my early teens.  I remember not being impressed, but I could see that my father had been deeply affected.  I remember thinking that a lot of this religion stuff sounded pretty damn hokey, highly emotional, and filled with non-sequitur.  Although I had never heard the word, "non-sequitur" before.  It was only later when I learned they actually had a word for such lazy slap happy thinking.

Offline Baruch

Re: Will Heaven last forever?
« Reply #125 on: March 26, 2020, 10:54:47 AM »
Every believer makes up their own religion (and language etc), individuality.  They then pretend that they share the same religion, group by group.  This is how politics works too.  Basically we are united by our shared memes, and divided by reality.  TDS for example.

I accept people's anecdotal evidence just to be polite and modest.  Unless they are potentially misquoting Trump, in which case I ask them for proof (and they often have it).  I find paranormal evidence to be interesting but not decisive.  Ordinary life is decisive evidence of "life" whatever that may be.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't to that.

Offline Hydra009

Re: Will Heaven last forever?
« Reply #126 on: March 26, 2020, 11:01:57 AM »
True - and almost all apparent contradictions in the Bible are due to inaccurate translations.
Then compare those translations to the original Bible and show how they are inaccurate.

;)

Offline Baruch

Re: Will Heaven last forever?
« Reply #127 on: March 26, 2020, 11:11:12 AM »
Then compare those translations to the original Bible and show how they are inaccurate.

;)

Here is a problem with translation ... the old words meant X in the original culture.  Usually multiple overlapping meanings.  The new words mean Y in the new culture. Usually multiple overlapping meanings.  This is why Islam says, the translated Quran isn't the Quran.  You have to master Arabic (aka the actual native Arabs are the natural masters of this religion).

This is why scholarly Hebrew survived the move to colloquial Aramaic, to Quranic Arabic, and countless other languages used by the Diaspora.  Biblical Hebrew ceased as a colloquial language in the 1st century CE (that is why the rabbis started "chederim" aka elementary schools, which taught Biblical Hebrew by immersion (they start the boys in Leviticus).

Later European yehivot had Yiddish or Ladino as colloquial languages, and even had to teach scholarly Aramaic (Talmud is a commentary on the Five Books of Moses).  Israelis think they are speaking Hebrew now, but they have a false sense of confidence.  Like Greeks who think they can easily read the NT in the original.  Greek has changed in 2000 years.  Israeli is an artificial language developed by Jewish geeks (like the invention of movie Klingon).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't to that.