i do not afraid of going to the hell,

[Cavebear]

I'm wondering if religion isn't linked more to a fear of parental abandonment than it is to a fear of death?

I think there are elements of both in religion.  Death is a natural event, watch any nature show.  We live by death ourselves. Even if you are vegan, you kill plants.

As to parental abandonment, I really liked both my parents (both deceased now), and I am atheist.  It would be interesting to know how many theists really liked their parents.  And I don't mean respected or honored their parents, I mean LIKED! 

[Baruch]

I think there are elements of both in religion.  Death is a natural event, watch any nature show.  We live by death ourselves. Even if you are vegan, you kill plants.

As to parental abandonment, I really liked both my parents (both deceased now), and I am atheist.  It would be interesting to know how many theists really liked their parents.  And I don't mean respected or honored their parents, I mean LIKED!

Virtue signaling again?  Well, can't speak for most theists.  You can't speak for most atheists.  Happy you liked your parents, but it is normal to fight them as part of separating from them, at least in your heart, if not moving out and joining a commune.

[Cavebear]

Virtue signaling again?  Well, can't speak for most theists.  You can't speak for most atheists.  Happy you liked your parents, but it is normal to fight them as part of separating from them, at least in your heart, if not moving out and joining a commune.

Which didn't answer my basic point...  Would you have liked your parents if they had been strangers living next door?  I would have.

I liked my Mom for her skills and I liked Dad for his.  And I would have liked Dad a LOT better if he wasn't related.

Here's a quick story.  I used to visit them for the Member/Guest golf tournament ( I was horrible),  But every year I got my game at least "functional" (about 90) and every year Dad would drive me nuts  "improving my game" until I couldn't hit a 5 iron to a 120 yard green! 

Well one year it rained and Dad was so distracted with his own problems he didn't bother me.  Best game of my life (and it was rated the 50th of the toughest courses).  I played MY game (swing hard and hope) and everything went beautifully.  One hole (up a rise), he got at me to say "play it safe with a 5 iron" and I said ""back off" and used my 2 iron.  It landed 3' from the hole. 

That was the 18th green (yes I sank the putt) and we one because of that.  It was the last round of golf I ever played with him.  Because even after that, he said I should have played it safe. 

Dad was a scratch golfer but he never won any tournaments.  Ya gotta dare to win sometimes.

Did I ever tell you about the chalk fake golf ball I gave him once?

[Unbeliever]

My foster dad used to play with people like Lee Trevino, but I never took up the game. Never even played on a real course, but I've played some miniature golf and liked it because I was pretty good at it. It was more like shooting pool, at which I was also pretty good.

[Baruch]

"And I would have liked Dad a LOT better if he wasn't related." ... strange.  Don't feel the need to comment further.

Your question was a counterfactual, so impossible to take seriously.  If you have been born a gay woman, would you find Ellen hot?

i have known someone my age, who long before I met him, hated his parents and loved the parents of his girlfriend.  Because his parents were a secular mess, and his girlfriends parents were classic American Gothic.  He adopted their religion, and virtually moved in with them, as a teen, until he was allowed to marry their daughter (probably after graduating as an engineer from college).  My parents weren't American Gothic ... neither very good or very bad.  But the good lives on and the bad has faded.

[Cavebear]

The chalk ball...

I found it in a novelty shop.  It felt just like a real golf ball.  I kept it aside and waited.  One day, Dad FINALLY hit a ball off into the woods and he asked me to toss him a "provisional ball".  I tossed him the chalk ball I had kept waiting for this time.  He was too annoyed to examine it.  He hit the ball and of course it turned into a cloud of dust when he hit it!

He stood there for a moment completely confused.  His golfing partners weren't sure what happened either, but one looked over at me and saw the grin on my face and they all cracked up. 

Dad was slow to realize what I had done.  LOL!

[hobby420]

For me it comes down to a simple equation when thinking about death.....
(Regret after death) = (Anticipation prior to birth)

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[Mike Cl]

For me it comes down to a simple equation when thinking about death.....
(Regret after death) = (Anticipation prior to birth)

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Not sure what you mean.

[Baruch]

For me it comes down to a simple equation when thinking about death.....
(Regret after death) = (Anticipation prior to birth)

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

In EQ (not IQ) reality is framed by emotions, not by ideas.  The past is regret and pride.  The future is fear and hope.

[Unbeliever]

The past is regret and pride.  The future is fear and hope.

No, both the future and the past are oblivion. It's our default state, but we've coalesced into "us" for a while before we fold back to the default state.

[Baruch]

No, both the future and the past are oblivion. It's our default state, but we've coalesced into "us" for a while before we fold back to the default state.

If you want to parade your guilt ... "de-fault" ... that is your choice.

Only optimists and Buddhists hope for oblivion.  Alternatively you could achieve that in this life with a concussion resulting in amnesia.  Your self would be gone but your body would continue with someone else in charge.

[hobby420]

Not sure what you mean.

This was in response to the author of this topic who is not afraid of going to hell but afraid of going to "nowhere".  A lot of us who were raised in a Christian family and went through the attempts of indoctrination or are recovering from being indoctrinated at one time, struggle with the idea of death.  All that we experience requires consciousness so, to experience nowhere or nothingness, one would have to be conscious.  The hangover from a religious upbringing is that we will still have awareness (consciousness) after death, be it heaven or hell.  Although I never really fully bought into the BS I was force-fed in my youth, some concepts such as there being something after death does seem to get embedded. 

Like most atheists, I like to rely on logic, reason and proof to guide my beliefs but it took some time for me shake the notion of something after death.  I went back to the source of this irrational notion... religion.  It has been well proven that Hell was a contrived concept put in place by religion as a "stick" because the "carrot" wasn't working.  If you ever believed the bible was true, you need to go back to the unbastardized original texts which states the lake of fire is created for demigods/demigoddesses but for us mortals. it was either eternal life in the celestial North Korea or nothing (death). 

So, putting mythology aside, we need to get back to logic, reason and proof.  As there is no proof of anything on either side of life, logic and reason would dictate that thoughts and feelings did not exist prior to life so they will not exist after life.  As conscious beings, we experience (thoughts and feelings) constantly and it is very difficult for us to get our heads around a state of zero experience as we have nothing experiential to base it on.  If we can get there, we can then truly enjoy the good fortune/luck of existing in the first place.  I am very happy to be in that place!  So my comment was to say there was no experience before life and there will be no experience after life so literally nothing to fear.

I know this was a little long winded but I hope is clears up my comment.

H420

[Baruch]

in long winded strings, it is best to either "quote" what you are responding to, in full or in part, or say you are responding to the OP (aka first post).

[Mike Cl]

This was in response to the author of this topic who is not afraid of going to hell but afraid of going to "nowhere".  A lot of us who were raised in a Christian family and went through the attempts of indoctrination or are recovering from being indoctrinated at one time, struggle with the idea of death.  All that we experience requires consciousness so, to experience nowhere or nothingness, one would have to be conscious.  The hangover from a religious upbringing is that we will still have awareness (consciousness) after death, be it heaven or hell.  Although I never really fully bought into the BS I was force-fed in my youth, some concepts such as there being something after death does seem to get embedded. 

Like most atheists, I like to rely on logic, reason and proof to guide my beliefs but it took some time for me shake the notion of something after death.  I went back to the source of this irrational notion... religion.  It has been well proven that Hell was a contrived concept put in place by religion as a "stick" because the "carrot" wasn't working.  If you ever believed the bible was true, you need to go back to the unbastardized original texts which states the lake of fire is created for demigods/demigoddesses but for us mortals. it was either eternal life in the celestial North Korea or nothing (death). 

So, putting mythology aside, we need to get back to logic, reason and proof.  As there is no proof of anything on either side of life, logic and reason would dictate that thoughts and feelings did not exist prior to life so they will not exist after life.  As conscious beings, we experience (thoughts and feelings) constantly and it is very difficult for us to get our heads around a state of zero experience as we have nothing experiential to base it on.  If we can get there, we can then truly enjoy the good fortune/luck of existing in the first place.  I am very happy to be in that place!  So my comment was to say there was no experience before life and there will be no experience after life so literally nothing to fear.

I know this was a little long winded but I hope is clears up my comment.

H420

Gotja--thanks.

[Cavebear]

If you want to parade your guilt ... "de-fault" ... that is your choice.

Only optimists and Buddhists hope for oblivion.  Alternatively you could achieve that in this life with a concussion resulting in amnesia.  Your self would be gone but your body would continue with someone else in charge.

IF there was a deity, do you really think that a simple coma resulting in eventual death would have an affect on the deity saving the soul of that person?