Author Topic: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation  (Read 194 times)

Offline Hydra009

Both of these looming problems are massive and intertwined, with profound effects on the future of humanity and the ecosystem in general.  And when people read/hear about this stuff, it creates a lot of anxiety, and there are a few reliably predictable psychological reactions:

1) Embrace change (We need to do something to about this pronto!)
2) Abject denial (Snow exists, so global warming is fake.  Everyone on the planet could fit in Texas)
3) Crushing pessimism (We're doomed, no change is going to be enough, nothing can be done)

In this thread, I want to focus on the last one.

When activists (#1) bring up this stuff, usually with scary imagery/statistics, it's mainly to impress the seriousness of the situation on group #2 in the hopes of shocking them out of their denialism.  Unfortunately, it can also push people who might otherwise be group #1 into group #3.  Instead of fortifying their resolve to combat this threat, it can actually cause people to completely lose heart, the exact opposite of what activists' intended.

And on both problems, you needn't look far to see plenty of extremely negative news.  And psychologically, people are more likely to fixate on negative news.  Thus, it's extremely easy to lose hope.  And conveniently, this allows a despairing person to subscribe to a fatalistic outlook to escape anxiety and responsibility by painting the problem as hopeless and inevitable.

But - and this usually gets ignored in preference for negative news - both problems have plenty of hopeful developments: rapidly falling renewable costs (and therefore more viable competitors), increased global adoption of renewables (conversely, a growing rejection of coal and oil), declining fertility rates (to the point that the global population might start shrinking by 2050, albeit at a dangerously high level), etc.

The point is, it's not all gloom and doom.  Activists wouldn't bring it up and push for change if the situation was entirely hopeless!

Offline Baruch

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2019, 06:33:03 PM »
Embrace change?  You get hit by another car while driving to work?  That doesn't happen every day.  So tell  me what is good about change?

Embrace status quo?  Your bills are preventing you from eating, your worries are preventing you from sleeping.  Change might be good in that case, or not.

Optimism and pessimism are just names for particular psychopathies.  You don't know what will happen tomorrow.  You can always kill yourself, so you don't have to find out if you are right or wrong (sarcasm, don't do that).

In fact, age old wisdom says, that dying tomorrow, might be the best possible outcome for some people.  Don't like that, but there it is.

Atheist god/theist god ... I know the future.  My balls are giant and crystal.  I know what the weather or climate will be next year.  All bow down and worship me?

Atheist god/theist god ... I think there are too many people, so I just won't take the risk of creating a pregnancy?  Sounds like good planning to me, and maybe a great way to cull the population of certain kinds of sociopaths.  Of course, having more people, or even having any people at all, might be a good or a bad thing.  I don't know, and I deny that any other egomaniac out there knows.

Usually apocalyptic stuff is theist, but when atheists do it, they just show that they are still just as human as the theists are.

More seriously, thinking like this means .... I can kill you to stop your car from putting out carbon ... I am a dark superhero.

More seriously, thinking like this means .... I can cull the population, to prevent the pregnancy of a woman I am not involved with ... I am The Terminator.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 06:51:40 PM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2019, 05:07:18 AM »
I'm a natural 3. And the main reason is the main problem. Population growth. If we don't stop breeding ASAP, nothing is going to change. Period. Without stopping population growth, nothing can be done.

And at some point, somebody will attempt to kill billions to 'clean' the planet. I don't mean something like a nuclear war of course. Land is precious. Something much more sophisticated.


Online Munch

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2019, 06:15:14 AM »
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I'm a natural 3. And the main reason is the main problem. Population growth. If we don't stop breeding ASAP, nothing is going to change. Period. Without stopping population growth, nothing can be done.

And at some point, somebody will attempt to kill billions to 'clean' the planet. I don't mean something like a nuclear war of course. Land is precious. Something much more sophisticated.

Yup, something we agree on.

Overpopulation of the species, a species that saps every kind of natural resource, and yet is outside the sphere of moral acceptability to consider culling it. We are the only species on the planet where that would be considered to horrific to contemplate, despite our kind doing it to any other species for others to grow.

Sad fact is unless a new massive world war happens, or a natural disaster like a meteor or super volcano happens to wipe out a strong population of the planet, giving the planet a chance to heal, then it's gonna continue the way it is and dam other series with it.

Damned if we do or damned if we don't.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 05:59:30 PM by Munch »

Offline Sal1981

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2019, 07:04:30 AM »
Global warming is something that is already biting on our asses with the crazy weather we're having. Overpopulation? Kurzgesagt has a nice video on it:

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"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline Halkenburg

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2019, 07:10:27 AM »
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Global warming is something that is already biting on our asses with the crazy weather we're having. Overpopulation? Kurzgesagt has a nice video on it:

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Hey, someone else who knows Kurzgesagt!

As for the topic at hand, I feel crushing hopelessness and pessimism whenever I think about the future. I feel like we're all on a train that's about to derail but nobody is hitting the breaks on the train in spite of all the warnings. :-/

Offline Baruch

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2019, 10:21:41 AM »
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I'm a natural 3. And the main reason is the main problem. Population growth. If we don't stop breeding ASAP, nothing is going to change. Period. Without stopping population growth, nothing can be done.

And at some point, somebody will attempt to kill billions to 'clean' the planet. I don't mean something like a nuclear war of course. Land is precious. Something much more sophisticated.

You have done your part, as I recall, to not overpopulate.  That is a anti-Natalist position.  Quite possibly, your child would have cured cancer, thus making overpopulation worse.

Agenda 21 ... yes, the UN knows, Club of Rome knows, that the 21st century is the moment to turn the planet into a paradise for the Rothschilds.  You will either be royalty, or house boy/girl.  I got my French maid outfit read to go ;-)
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2019, 10:26:07 AM »
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Hey, someone else who knows Kurzgesagt!

As for the topic at hand, I feel crushing hopelessness and pessimism whenever I think about the future. I feel like we're all on a train that's about to derail but nobody is hitting the breaks on the train in spite of all the warnings. :-/

The most significant event of the 19th century, per Bismarck ... "North America speaks English, not German".  Germany is not in a good geographic position, just one step above Poland.  But Germany does have one of the most advanced societies on Earth ... so you ain't Somalia either.

How can the train be stopped, when there is no conductor?  That is why we need a world dictator, right?  Well anybody try that, and I am fine sending up the Red Balloon, and ending the human race.  Being dead, y'all won't have nothing to worry about anymore .... otherwise ...

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You don't have to be Jamaican or Rastifarian, mon!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 08:19:51 PM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2019, 10:28:49 AM »
"Kurzgesagt – In a Nutshell is a Munich-based YouTube channel and design studio. The YouTube channel focuses on producing animated educational content. Founded by Philipp Dettmer in 2013, the channel has now gained over 7 million subscribers."  But with optimistic nihilism?

Didn't know them.  Now I am less ignorant.  Thanks.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2019, 12:16:54 PM »
I'm a #1.  Change and fix things or die.

The problem is that politicians think in terms of the next election, so 10 years is A FOREVER THAT MAY NOT HAPPEN!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2019, 01:57:44 PM »
I don't know why pessimism has to be "crushing." I'm a pessimist and I don't feel the least bit put out by it. The Earth will do whatever it's going to do whether anyone likes it or not. And humanity will survive or it won't. I don't have to care either way, so I don't tear myself up about it.
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"I can’t really say that anything he says is true, but I trust him."
Valarie Wunder, 34, a home health aide from Worland, Wyo., about Donald Trump

Online Munch

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2019, 06:07:03 PM »
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I don't know why pessimism has to be "crushing." I'm a pessimist and I don't feel the least bit put out by it. The Earth will do whatever it's going to do whether anyone likes it or not. And humanity will survive or it won't. I don't have to care either way, so I don't tear myself up about it.

I'm a pessimist myself in these things. I'll be dead anytime between now and another 40-50 years, so why should I care if humanity ends up fucking everything up by then anyway? I'm also gay and no plans on adoption with my boyfriends, so nothing there to really think beyond that.

But I do have nephews now, and much as an cynical bastard I can be about people ooing and awwing over children, I do love them, and that part of me wants to at least think of them having a decent future and whenever they have kids of their own.

The problem with things being balanced in the natural state of things, is that things need to be lost in order for balance to be obtained. Its sad to think of my families future generations having to go though the mess thats slowly developing, but kinda like how the suns going to either explode or implode one day, this is just how things will end up regardless of what we do now.

Offline Baruch

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2019, 08:19:23 PM »
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I'm a #1.  Change and fix things or die.

The problem is that politicians think in terms of the next election, so 10 years is A FOREVER THAT MAY NOT HAPPEN!

Nobody is smart enough to fix things (monkeys) and change is futile (monkeys).
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2019, 05:04:41 AM »
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Nobody is smart enough to fix things (monkeys) and change is futile (monkeys).

And THERE is the essential problem.  Fools like you think that we can't fix what we cause and that we are too stupid to fix problems.  How are the ozone holes doing lately?  Didn't we fix that?

You are actually a Luddite.  You not only don't think progress can work, you seem to think it shouldn't!  Had any vaccination shots?  Visited a doctor who used leeches?  Gone to a barber who bled you?  Had an enema? 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Optimism VS crushing pessimism on global warming and overpopulation
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2019, 09:56:06 AM »
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And THERE is the essential problem.  Fools like you think that we can't fix what we cause and that we are too stupid to fix problems.  How are the ozone holes doing lately?  Didn't we fix that?

You are actually a Luddite.  You not only don't think progress can work, you seem to think it shouldn't!  Had any vaccination shots?  Visited a doctor who used leeches?  Gone to a barber who bled you?  Had an enema?

Every solution, creates another problem.  Of course when a programmer, we try to forget that, getting drunk at the end of the day after a hard day of "wrong coding".  So yes, change things or not.  But you won't escape the limitations of your own monkey-business.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

 

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