New tactical overview of the Eastern Front 1941 + 1942

[Baruch]

I'll support a Primal Scream from time to time.  Just say it is before and I'll accept it.  Sometimes I want to scream too.  Both history and current events deserve screams of frustration and objections to stupidity.

See, convergent personal development, if not convergent evolution (I don't hibernate).

[Cavebear]

See, convergent personal development, if not convergent evolution (I don't hibernate).

Well, I tend to think you are gradually coming around to my way of thinking, but OK...

[Baruch]

Well, I tend to think you are gradually coming around to my way of thinking, but OK...

We are both advancing to equal corpse state.  But I am in no hurry ;-)

[Cavebear]

We are both advancing to equal corpse state.  But I am in no hurry ;-)

Regardless of age, one never knows when anyone will reach corpsehood...

[Baruch]

Regardless of age, one never knows when anyone will reach corpsehood...

I prefer it to be a surprise too.  Any day now, given my health.  But I intend to fight back anew, now that I am out of the rat race.

[Cavebear]

I prefer it to be a surprise too.  Any day now, given my health.  But I intend to fight back anew, now that I am out of the rat race.

Surprise can be good.  Both my parents struggled through Parkinson's and Dementia (1 each) and I don't desire to go either way.  The problem is that when you get there, there isn't much you are able to do about it.  You can check out a day before or wait a day too late.

[Baruch]

Surprise can be good.  Both my parents struggled through Parkinson's and Dementia (1 each) and I don't desire to go either way.  The problem is that when you get there, there isn't much you are able to do about it.  You can check out a d iay before or wait a day too late.

Wisdom is always a day late and a dollar short.  My dad checked out.  My mother did not.  Tragedy either way.  Speaking of relations, I just studied some public record on one of my great grandfathers.  He was a latter rancher pioneer.  Founded his horse/mule/cattle ranch in 1906 in the almost tame West.  Come post WW II, the Army declared the area around his ranch, to be eminent domain.  Think Ponderosa for real.  For range safety.  GGpap refused.  Held the marshals off at gun point.  Held the Army off at gun point.  My grandfather talked him down eventually.  They gave him a check for one million dollars in today's money.  GGpap never cashed it.  He was 82 at the time.  Grandfather and wife provided assisted living at the ranch (they let him keep the house and a few acres temporarily).  A few years later he developed pneumonia and had to leave the ranch.  Two years after that he died at 91.  Perhaps when the will was probated, the million dollars (in today's money) was cashed.


He came by wagon, 1000 miles, to homestead.  Built a successful ranch and family.  In the end, due to nothing that could be forseen, he lost it all.  Couldn't even die on his ranch like he wanted.  The Army did let him be buried there.  Then they destroyed what was left of the ranch buildings.  Count no man happy until he is dead - ancient Athenian saying.

[Cavebear]

Wisdom is always a day late and a dollar short.  My dad checked out.  My mother did not.  Tragedy either way.  Speaking of relations, I just studied some public record on one of my great grandfathers.  He was a latter rancher pioneer.  Founded his horse/mule/cattle ranch in 1906 in the almost tame West.  Come post WW II, the Army declared the area around his ranch, to be eminent domain.  Think Ponderosa for real.  For range safety.  GGpap refused.  Held the marshals off at gun point.  Held the Army off at gun point.  My grandfather talked him down eventually.  They gave him a check for one million dollars in today's money.  GGpap never cashed it.  He was 82 at the time.  Grandfather and wife provided assisted living at the ranch (they let him keep the house and a few acres temporarily).  A few years later he developed pneumonia and had to leave the ranch.  Two years after that he died at 91.  Perhaps when the will was probated, the million dollars (in today's money) was cashed.

I respect all of your ancestors in that situation. 


He came by wagon, 1000 miles, to homestead.  Built a successful ranch and family.  In the end, due to nothing that could be forseen, he lost it all.  Couldn't even die on his ranch like he wanted.  The Army did let him be buried there.  Then they destroyed what was left of the ranch buildings.  Count no man happy until he is dead - ancient Athenian saying.

[Baruch]

Ask any of my grandfathers, or their fathers before them.  There are no real men in America.  Toxic masculinity.  Even my own father was wild in his youth, but not longer, after he got married, he was tamed ;-)  Intellectually, I am way ahead of any of them, partially because of better technology (Internet).  I would have had a son, a brain in a jar, but they were out of jars.

My daughter was on the way to being way smart, but puberty destroyed her mind.  Otherwise a probably brain surgeon.  Biology is very clear on what girls are for.

[Cavebear]

Ask any of my grandfathers, or their fathers before them.  There are no real men in America.  Toxic masculinity.  Even my own father was wild in his youth, but not longer, after he got married, he was tamed ;-)  Intellectually, I am way ahead of any of them, partially because of better technology (Internet).  I would have had a son, a brain in a jar, but they were out of jars.

My daughter was on the way to being way smart, but puberty destroyed her mind.  Otherwise a probably brain surgeon.  Biology is very clear on what girls are for.

You make my heart speed up.  In anger.  If I spoke honestly, I would probably be banned...

[Baruch]

You make my heart speed up.  In anger.  If I spoke honestly, I would probably be banned...

Me too.  And I don't want to see an old bear in spandex flying around.  I will get out my German 88 mm anti-aircraft gun.  Ah … fine German engineering.

[Cavebear]

Me too.  And I don't want to see an old bear in spandex flying around.  I will get out my German 88 mm anti-aircraft gun.  Ah … fine German engineering.

I don't even wear shorts or sandals.  More into solid full length clothes (anti-moquito) and sensible shoes.

[aileron]

Spoiler alert... Stalin's bullet catcher plan beat Hitler's popsicle plan. Better not to be a bullet catcher or popsicle, but -- Stalin and Hitler.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Not to bring the subject back to the subject (in violation of informal forum rules) but forum.axishistory.com folks say the map is accurate if you follow Hitler, not so much if you believe his generals. And the implication of a contiguous front got a chuckle or two.

[Baruch]

Not to bring the subject back to the subject (in violation of informal forum rules) but forum.axishistory.com folks say the map is accurate if you follow Hitler, not so much if you believe his generals. And the implication of a contiguous front got a chuckle or two.

Post war German story is apologetic (generals right, Hitler wrong, we were never Nazis).

During war Soviet story is propaganda (Stalin was a great military leader).

It is hard to determine what actually happened, beyond lots of corpses.