More toxic masculinity condemned by the APA and Gillette razors ...

[Hydra009]

American culture has a comical obsession about personal space. Not just in public transport. Open space, everywhere. If you get 'close' to someone face to face asking directions, standing-sitting in a crowded bar, in a sense what is very normal in Europe chances are -esp. in a big city- people are gonna step back as if your are some sort of a physical threat or the worst case, someone is going to warn you about it. Highly likely a woman. Men are more tolerant to women. Also they are not a  natural physical threat to most men.

Space in the States in any sense is used differently. From domestic architecture to cars, parking cars. It's like someone playing a building game for the first time. Everything is too far apart. If you do not have a car, you cannot do anything for example. Think about that in Europe, lol. Esp. in Middle Europe.

There are definitely some national/cultural differences when it comes to personal space.  I'm firmly in the camp that favors large amounts of personal space.  Getting too close is viewed as a threatening or insulting (not respecting someone else's personal space is treated as disrespecting them).  The US is apparently not too different from the UK and some north/central european countries, though people in other european countries prefer to be much closer.

I've heard stories about the Finnish being on the extreme end, preferring vast amounts of personal space.  I dunno how credible that stereotype is, but it sounds very appealing.

[PickelledEggs]

About "manspreading".

What is named "manspreading" is a term 5-6 years old. I find it funny, because the situation described has nothing to do with normally a man sitting and needing to spread their legs a bit, because of their genitals or because they are big. You guys forget something. If you are big, you don't sit beside someone as big as you, do you? You choose to sit beside someone relaitvely smaller than you. It's instictive.     

It's something happens when big people -who are mostly men- lean their legs into the people sit besides them. And men are likley to do this intincitvely to women, but not to other men. (Two big men sitting side by side is not something happens usually if they don't have to, since the seats in question have average sizes everywhere around the world, inlimited number and it would be very uncomfortable.)

Actually, I am guessing, most men are not even aware of it. However they sit differently with other men.

But the videos and pics are ridiculous as Pickel's pic, even when it is really showing something. Exactly the same thing goes here. These people are rude. That's all. And exactly like men, women recognise what men do more than what women do. Same story.

Because women lean in too. Actually, according to my experiences, women act exactly the opposite of men and lean into people with their own gender without knowing or sit in a worse position beside them. They movemore comfortable. While men try not to spread, lean in or touch consciously sitting beside another men.

Personally, I experience both a lot. Mostly, if I am unconfortable, I make a movement and you know what happens mostly? The man sitting beside me tries to make a move to show me it's not on purpose. Body language. And then honestly, it doesn't bother me at all after that. A few times, I even chuckled to the gesture, others did a similar thing and it wasn't a problem. Communication. 

But then there are people who does this purposefully. Ignoring you sitting beside them, leaning into and even sometimes leaning in more as you try to move. And that's not as rare as you think.

*** The thing is as I am saying for the third time, men do not spread their legs sitting beside other men. And I think it is a primitve unaware gesture of showing genitals to the female as lesser primates do. Showing manhood. Seriously. :)

Why in the hell are you on about my comment that I made over a year ago about manspreading.
1: it was a commentary joke.
2: that bag was fucking huge.
3: it was over a year ago
4: (and most importantly) IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THREAD AND I WAS ON THE SIDE OF PEOPLE SAYING THAT PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE AD ARE THE WHINERS.

Get over yourself, shoe. There is a reason I stopped talking to you and removed you from my personal life and shit like this is a huge fucking reason. Digging up and starting arguments out of nowhere for no reason even when that person is on your fucking side.

[PickelledEggs]

"What about *insert thing here*???...
What about *insert thing there*???..."

I swear. You and pr are the exact same, just on different sides of the political spectrum. Horrible at debating. Horrible at discussions 99% of the time. Immediately jump to off topic instances that don't even have relevance in the first place. It's impossible talking to both of you.

[Baruch]

Ah ffs, see, this. What did I say? It's an unconcious behaviour at most times. This is the fundamental flaw in looking at human condition. I described something and you put it in a formula of the bullshit in seconds; men vs women. We are fucking monkeys, sweety. And we get it out in every opportunity. That doesn't mean we can't regulate human behaviour for the better. NOT correct, regulate. No, I am not talking about an utopia.

Your better or my better?  Yes, there can be sleeping with enemies, it is called marriage ;-)

[drunkenshoe]

What passes here as 'discussion' on this subject is everyone getting into their chosen camps and like posts against each other as teams. According to what; who is annoyed by what? It's like little 'Murrica. Rope pulling. What is that game called in English? Couple of years ago the flag on the rope was at the other side, now you are pulling to this side.

And I am asking 'Hey guys, there is a shift to the opposite direction in your attitude which is collective by the way, what changed?' Gives a solid example. BAAAM! 'You are very bad at debating, you are baaad, baad Shoe.'

Fuck forbid someone asks what changed, adding 2 and 2 and ask people to take responsibility for their simplest actions, comments, opinions; ask about them to clearly point something out; come out and say 'What happened? Why?' Because it fucks the politically correct balance. We should like certain posters' posts and disagree with certain others. We shouldn't say, 'hey but your opinion was this, what happened?' We should live with a politically correct, soft, white amnesia, because then we shit on people. But why? Because we are 6 years old. 

Why on earth would you think this is about 'shitting' on you, if you are so sure where you stand about that pic in the first place? Because you are aware how ridiculous it is. You also get perfectly what it represents related to this subject, in this context. It's a perfect example. And it is important. This is what you don't get. It's important and you should remember it, you should be aware of that change and why. But all you can come up with 'Shoe, you are baaaad'.

Frankly, you are the one who cannot get over himself. Otherwise this wouldn't annoy you at all and you could talk about it in any terms without throwing silly insults like 'sjw' or you are 99% bad...etc.

[drunkenshoe]

There are definitely some national/cultural differences when it comes to personal space.  I'm firmly in the camp that favors large amounts of personal space.  Getting too close is viewed as a threatening or insulting (not respecting someone else's personal space is treated as not disrespecting them).  The US is apparently not too different from the UK and some north/central european countries, though people in other european countries prefer to be much closer.

I've heard stories about the Finnish being on the extreme end, preferring vast amounts of personal space.  I dunno how credible that stereotype is, but it sounds very appealing.

Yes, I know. I get it. UK is not like US though. I thought the same, I was surprised. 

See, this is not something as good, healthy or natural as it seems, Hydra. Because the conditions that casues simple things turn into cultural obsessions are very similar to the ones that make people call the police when an ordinary adult man is just talking to a kid for example.

I can elaborate that but honestly, I don't feel like it right now. We could talk about it later.

[drunkenshoe]

Your better or my better?  Yes, there can be sleeping with enemies, it is called marriage ;-)

My better then. Because you got married and that is enough evidence to question sanity as you know. You also have kids! :)

[Plu]

My better then. Because you got married and that is enough evidence to question sanity as you know. You also have kids! :)

If these are the criteria, that does not bode well for me

Wait... never mind, I've not had much sanity for the longest time.

Also, I'll admit I did miss these furious back and forth discussions a bit in my absence!

[drunkenshoe]

If these are the criteria, that does not bode well for me

Wait... never mind, I've not had much sanity for the longest time.

Also, I'll admit I did miss these furious back and forth discussions a bit in my absence!

Naaah, you've built a family without marriage.

So you guys got married? Last time we talked, you just had your son. Aw.

[Plu]

Naaah, you've built a family without marriage.

So you guys got married? Last time we talked, you just had your son. Aw.

Depends on who you ask! Technically, we're "registered partners", but we've been that since shortly after the older one was born.
Some people seem to considered it married, or don't know the difference between the two. I consider myself married when the other option isn't available.

Also, the "aw" phase for my son has long since passed. He is now in the "argh" phase.

[PickelledEggs]

You are arguing with someone that was stating points that agreed with your point with a scenario that has nothing to do with this thread and was also over a year ago. And you wonder why I got annoyed?

Get real.

[aitm]

People who agree arguing like crazy over shit they really don't care about......ahhh this place is almost back to normal.......

[drunkenshoe]

Depends on who you ask! Technically, we're "registered partners", but we've been that since shortly after the older one was born.
Some people seem to considered it married, or don't know the difference between the two. I consider myself married when the other option isn't available.

Also, the "aw" phase for my son has long since passed. He is now in the "argh" phase.

LOL The idea of marriage changes according to people, not just cultures. You'd think two people living together and taking a huge responsibility of raising kids should be enough. And it is. I remember your family.   

My prejudice against traditional marriage has turned into something else in the last couple of years. I have seen one too many toxic relationships, people I have known for more than 20 years acting in ridiculous ways, doing things out of character. Esp. this ceremony industry; wedding business. OW OW. People are insane. Mostly, women are insane. I don't think it is just about middle east culture. Because before I thought that. It is nauseating.     

There is also another aspect. There was always a group of people treating marriage as life status, succces and meaning their lives, but now it seems that has reached some creepy, frightening levels. When I was younger we all talked about 'oh well it is an institution!'...blah blah. Now, it looks like 'it's a growing business!' for a growing group of people.   

[Baruch]

LOL The idea of marriage changes according to people, not just cultures. You'd think two people living together and taking a huge responsibility of raising kids should be enough. And it is. I remember your family.   

My prejudice against traditional marriage has turned into something else in the last couple of years. I have seen one too many toxic relationships, people I have known for more than 20 years acting in ridiculous ways, doing things out of character. Esp. this ceremony industry; wedding business. OW OW. People are insane. Mostly, women are insane. I don't think it is just about middle east culture. Because before I thought that. It is nauseating.     

There is also another aspect. There was always a group of people treating marriage as life status, succces and meaning their lives, but now it seems that has reached some creepy, frightening levels. When I was younger we all talked about 'oh well it is an institution!'...blah blah. Now, it looks like 'it's a growing business!' for a growing group of people.   

We have a term, in the US at least ... bridezilla.

Marriage, was invented by men for women (their legal rights, specifically to prevent bride-kidnapping and guarantee the return of the dowry in the event of divorce).  This was originally nothing to do with romance (see Romeo & Juliet), but a business deal between the father of the bride and the father of the groom.  So was run by the patriarchy.  The mothers were running their own matriarchy inside the boundary of the patriarchy.  Society has degraded a lot over the last 500 years in the West.  We are basically feral weasels now.  This may be new to Turkey, since you are so recently modernized.

[drunkenshoe]

People who agree arguing like crazy over shit they really don't care about......ahhh this place is almost back to normal.......

Do we? Doubtful. My English is not very good, but I don't think it is that bad the point cannot be seen.

Other than that I know you missed me, honey. Mwah. You sound bored. :)