Author Topic: Bravo Belgium  (Read 474 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2019, 12:52:34 PM »
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Ahahahah. I hope so. Denmark did this.

This is not just something about animal rights. Religious groups keep asking for special treatment more and more all the time. They ask for all kosher/helal meat stores for themselves to shop. Then they will ask special places to eat. Then they will ask... But if they get the high numbers in a region, they won't let stores to sell pork or alcoholic beverages or whatnot. And a lot of companies respond to this bullshit, because it is a lot of money.

That is why we need a comeback of the Soviet Union.  And the conquest of Nato countries.  To bring about the Socialist Revolution.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Online Hydra009

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2019, 04:09:10 PM »
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This is not just something about animal rights. Religious groups keep asking for special treatment more and more all the time. They ask for all kosher/helal meat stores for themselves to shop. Then they will ask special places to eat. Then they will ask... But if they get the high numbers in a region, they won't let stores to sell pork or alcoholic beverages or whatnot. And a lot of companies respond to this bullshit, because it is a lot of money.
I've encountered that personally a couple of times, and I've always been annoyed by the person's insistence that the store bend over backwards to accommodate their beliefs.  Perhaps I'm wrong in my perception, but it has often seemed to me as more of a desire to exert influence on others than pursue a regimen of self-discipline.

I have no problem with people holding whatever proscriptions they want - but other people should not be beholden to it.  If you don't eat meat, don't shop somewhere that primarily serves meat if you aren't okay with that.  It's that simple.  I don't drink alcohol, but I would never dream of demanding that others change their lifestyle to match or change a bar's menu to be more "teetotaler-friendly".  That's ridiculous and more than a little controlling.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 04:12:07 PM by Hydra009 »

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2019, 04:11:25 PM »
Summed up in the aphorism "live and let live." Too bad many people just can't do that.
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"Theism tells men that they are slaves of a God. Atheism assures men that they are the investigators and users of nature."
E. Haldeman-Julius

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2019, 06:47:58 PM »
Okay, I'm getting confused here. I'm hearing "live and let live" and not demanding people change their behavior to accommodate other people's beliefs but isn't legislating everyone slaughter animals a specific way so as not to offend the sensibilities of animal welfare advocates the opposite of that sentiment?

Laws across Europe and European Union regulations require that animals be rendered insensible to pain before slaughter, to make the process more humane. For larger animals, stunning before slaughter usually means using a β€œcaptive bolt” device that fires a metal rod into the brain; for poultry it usually means an electric shock. Animals can also be knocked out with gas. But slaughter by Muslim halal and Jewish kosher rules requires that an animal be in perfect health β€” which religious authorities say rules out stunning it first β€” and be killed with a single cut to the neck that severs critical blood vessels. The animal loses consciousness in seconds, and advocates say it may cause less suffering than other methods, not more.

Isn't this basically like killing people via electric chair versus firing squad? The whole animal suffering argument seems a bit specious to me, especially given the nature of factory farming. Keeping an animal in a tiny cage its entire life is okay but at slaughter we are going to make their death slightly less painful. Since the degree of animal suffering appears questionable, isn't balancing personal liberty versus government regulation of concern?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 06:58:21 PM by GSOgymrat »
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Offline Baruch

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2019, 07:21:28 PM »
In Europe or Canada, but not the US, you are just a stinking peasant.  You aren't a citizen.  Americans and Europeans want Americans to be just like Europeans.  That is what Hitler and Stalin wanted too.  Nuke Europe.

Given the hate crime laws in most of the EU, and Laicity in France (it is a crime to wear a cross in public etc) ... that is pretty not comparable to the US.  The proper European solution to animal slaughter is to only allow secular bureaucrats of the government do it, in the most uniform and uncaring way possible (bureaucrats care for no one).  Again, the point is to make everyone equal.  For example to make everyone in Europe eat from the same spoiled can of dog food, would be good, provided everyone gets the same amount.

In America which isn't turning into the shithole my ancestors fled from, there is more than one brand of dog food, more than one can, and we don't all get the same amount (for complicated reasons).  This infuriates the SJW aka Marxist scum.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline trdsf

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2019, 08:59:42 PM »
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Okay, I'm getting confused here. I'm hearing "live and let live" and not demanding people change their behavior to accommodate other people's beliefs but isn't legislating everyone slaughter animals a specific way so as not to offend the sensibilities of animal welfare advocates the opposite of that sentiment?

Laws across Europe and European Union regulations require that animals be rendered insensible to pain before slaughter, to make the process more humane. For larger animals, stunning before slaughter usually means using a β€œcaptive bolt” device that fires a metal rod into the brain; for poultry it usually means an electric shock. Animals can also be knocked out with gas. But slaughter by Muslim halal and Jewish kosher rules requires that an animal be in perfect health β€” which religious authorities say rules out stunning it first β€” and be killed with a single cut to the neck that severs critical blood vessels. The animal loses consciousness in seconds, and advocates say it may cause less suffering than other methods, not more.

Isn't this basically like killing people via electric chair versus firing squad? The whole animal suffering argument seems a bit specious to me, especially given the nature of factory farming. Keeping an animal in a tiny cage its entire life is okay but at slaughter we are going to make their death slightly less painful. Since the degree of animal suffering appears questionable, isn't balancing personal liberty versus government regulation of concern?
If -- and only if -- it can be scientifically demonstrated that kosher/halal methods of killing meat animals is more humane, hey, go for it.  But the decision needs to be made on the basis of data, not superstition and tradition.  If they are not in fact more humane, then they need to stop.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2019, 09:49:52 PM »
You know what's amusing, when pervert priests suck baby's dicks its a crime that the church will do anything to cover up...

But when an orthodox jew does it....

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Quote
Baby Dies of Herpes in Ritual Circumcision By Orthodox Jews

Quote
New York City is investigating the death last September of a baby who contracted herpes after a "ritual circumcision with oral suction," in an ultra-Orthodox Jewish ceremony known in Hebrew as metzitzah b'peh.

In a practice that takes place during a ceremony known as the bris, a circumcision practitioner, or mohel, removes the foreskin from the baby's penis, and with his mouth sucks the blood from the incision to cleanse the wound.

it's no big deal!

Primitive shits.
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Offline Baruch

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2019, 04:49:39 AM »
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If -- and only if -- it can be scientifically demonstrated that kosher/halal methods of killing meat animals is more humane, hey, go for it.  But the decision needs to be made on the basis of data, not superstition and tradition.  If they are not in fact more humane, then they need to stop.

Good question.  The most humane thing is to not eat meat.  Can you be a Jain?  You are comparing rape to pedophilia (metaphorically) and deciding which one is worse.

Again, the actual practice in the US is inhumane.  Americans are hypocritical scum.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2019, 12:12:13 PM »
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Perhaps I'm wrong in my perception, but it has often seemed to me as more of a desire to exert influence on others than pursue a regimen of self-discipline.

Your are not wrong.

But in my opinion the thing with this issue has looong grown bigger than the practise of refusing to eat meat, drink that or which meat to eat. The objective is not really that important any more. 

This is about puritanism. Puritanism gets often matched with conservatism, even religions. But people get away from mainstream religions more every day. They do not have to do anything with them. But they also need something. And there is this new age puritanism people seek out to feel good; unharming and also create a nich that they could blame/accuse all other groups for a world going down the toilet. It's a way of isolating themselves from the crowd. 'I'm good, you are not. I am not responsible for anything bad in this world. I am constructive, you are destructive.'

It's an addictive drug with a placebo effect. It's about 'saving yourself' and feeling good, get high and mighty about it, because see, it is good for the world too. If possible, making money of it. Too many things to write on this, no need.

Everything has become a self help menu in the world. Everything is about how to feel yourself good; if possible, euphoric please.

Try to ask an abusive vegan why does he/she procreate when every fucking issue in the world is a result of overgrown population and SO IS eating meat.   


Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2019, 12:29:23 PM »
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Good question.  The most humane thing is to not eat meat.

No, eating meat is the human thing. That's how we have become human and invented the humane things to do. 

Quote
You are comparing rape to pedophilia (metaphorically) and deciding which one is worse.

What is it with people and jumping on any subject with killing animals to eat with rape metaphors? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Anyway, the bullshit aside, have you ever seen a halal slaughter? How could anyone claim that it's more humane than stunning or electrifying the animal before.

The goal in halal slaughter is to kill the animal in the most primitive, bloody way and prevent it to be killed by any other means during the ritual. That's the reason why humans sacrifice animals, THE BLOOD. They are paying blood for their well being. 

Quote
Again, the actual practice in the US is inhumane.  Americans are hypocritical scum.

The actual practice? Seriously, what does that mean?

Offline Baruch

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2019, 12:37:08 PM »
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No, eating meat is the human thing. That's how we have become human and invented the humane things to do. 

What is it with people and jumping on any subject with killing animals to eat with rape metaphors? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Anyway, the bullshit aside, have you ever seen a halal slaughter? How could anyone claim that it's more humane than stunning or electrifying the animal before.

The goal in halal slaughter is to kill the animal in the most primitive, bloody way and prevent it to be killed by any other means during the ritual. That's the reason why humans sacrifice animals, THE BLOOD. They are paying blood for their well being. 

The actual practice? Seriously, what does that mean?

Hypocrisy and lies are the American stock in trade.  Our abattoirs are not humane.

Your notion of animal slaughter as a primitive ritual, is a lie.  The best way after anesthetizing the animal would be to cut its throat and drain the blood.

Have you ever slaughtered an animal?  I have witnessed or participated in the ... liquidation of chickens.  It wasn't by lethal injection.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2019, 01:26:42 PM »
Anesthetising the animal?! LOL Yes you have no idea about what is halal slaughter at all. The people who think stunning an animal could 'ruin' their meat will anesthetise it, right? People should be forced by a law to a standard. That's all this law thing is about, Baruch, standards. NOT justice.

No, I haven't slaughtered an animal. When I was a kid, I was curious why we never participated in eid as a family and my parents didn't tell me anything at that age. Then I went to see. I know what is halal slaughter. It is a ritual sacrifice in general. And in here we can't do anything about it. They finally started with just stunning over here. But well, don't hold your breath. Anesthetising? LOL Like we don't know religious people.     

It's a primitve ritual. Infact, it is the most primitive ritual, because it is probably the oldest one. The animals bleed, feel pain and die, so humans wouldn't. Do you need me to tell you about the link between the style of animal sacrifice and animal slaughter? Animal sacrifice is not something born from need of eating meat to begin with. Before that they highly likely killed humans, probably strongest male in a tribe with other animals and while they ate the certain parts of the human, consume the animals as meat.And the blood was seen as a price for the lives of people in the tribe.

For example, in islamic sacrifice, the blood of the sacrifice is wiped on children's forehead by the one who gives the sacrifice by finger, so they would be spared. So no harm would come to them.   



« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 01:29:03 PM by drunkenshoe »

Offline Baruch

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2019, 06:45:28 PM »
So, as a master race person, you are infinitely superior to other people?  Check your privs.  By going West instead of East, you have become White.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2019, 05:24:14 AM »
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So, as a master race person, you are infinitely superior to other people?  Check your privs.  By going West instead of East, you have become White.

What fucking bullshit. Nice reflection though. The ones whose world vision is based on the idea that they are god's special creatures are the ones who think they should have priviliges in every culture wherever they live. And your approach is based on a righteousness like 'if these ones can do this, the others should be able to do that'. You are after some sort of an arbitrary sense of social justice, not religious freedom.   

Standards, Baruch. Standards. The law.

Not to mention that we have limited resources, esp limited space and humans breeding like rats with no responsibility. This has to start somewhere. And these are the beginnings. There will be more and more restricting laws in the near future for everyone. Best place to start is the religious bullshit.  And guess what, Westerners will start to do that and I agree with them. I'm all for criticising every culture for their bullshit, this is not one of them.

Religious people should learn that they need to act according to certain set of standards which are determined by the laws. And that there is nothing above it. The fact that the system has many flaws, doesn't change the picture one bit.

If you refuse to shake hands with men/women in a ceremony for citizenship in a country you emigrated because of its high standards, they will make laws to push you to shake that hand. AND I SUPPORT IT.

Because this is not about shaking hands, this is not about shopping from a market selling pork or how to slaughter animals...blah blah. THIS HAS NO END.
These people believe in general that religion and faith must be held above the law and as religiou speople they shold be above it just because of that.  That they should be excused/exempted from everything they do. And they have a thousand standards. Some at the greyer-white end of the scale, some are dark. The logic is the same. Yes, I am making a generalisation. Because that's the way it is.     

What I want to see in my life time in the West is that every fucking group being pushed to send their children to standard schools and no religious/ethnic ones before 18 by the law and face heavy sanction if not.

Most of you people are still living on the moon. 

 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 05:26:58 AM by drunkenshoe »

Offline Baruch

Re: Bravo Belgium
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2019, 05:36:32 AM »
There is no law.  There is no morality.  There is only brute force ... and you either survive that or you don't.  Hitler and Stalin were correct.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

 

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