Author Topic: When Will Vesuvius Join In?  (Read 1061 times)

When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« on: December 24, 2018, 03:42:24 PM »
Krakatoa has erupted and now Mt. Etna is letting it fly.  Time for Vesuvius to join the party.  It has not erupted since 1944.  My father was there with the 5th Army and said it was the most terrifying thing he ever saw.
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Online Baruch

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2018, 03:54:23 PM »
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Krakatoa has erupted and now Mt. Etna is letting it fly.  Time for Vesuvius to join the party.  It has not erupted since 1944.  My father was there with the 5th Army and said it was the most terrifying thing he ever saw.

The gates of Hades, just W of Naples, is the biggest threat to Europe, bigger than Vesuvius or Etna.  Even bigger than Thera.

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This is where, in the Aeneid, Aeneas descended to Hades to consult with the dead.

The very scary Yellowstone Caldera and the Mt Toba Caldera are even scarier.

Just this weekend, a minor Krakatoa explosion killed over 200 and 1000 are still missing.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 04:04:21 PM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2018, 04:31:08 PM »
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Krakatoa has erupted and now Mt. Etna is letting it fly.  Time for Vesuvius to join the party.  It has not erupted since 1944.  My father was there with the 5th Army and said it was the most terrifying thing he ever saw.
I lived for three years in Motta Santa Anastasia, Provincia Catania, Sicilia, Italy. I lived on the slopes of Mt. Etna. It erupted several times while I was there, but no major eruptions. However, "major" is relative when you're talking about the largest volcano in Europe.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Baruch

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2018, 06:28:02 PM »
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I lived for three years in Motta Santa Anastasia, Provincia Catania, Sicilia, Italy. I lived on the slopes of Mt. Etna. It erupted several times while I was there, but no major eruptions. However, "major" is relative when you're talking about the largest volcano in Europe.

Unlike Empedocles, you didn't declare yourself a god, and throw yourself into the lava?
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2018, 07:12:47 PM »
Hey!  Maybe we can convince Trump to do that?
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2018, 07:16:33 PM »
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Hey!  Maybe we can convince Trump to do that?
Tell him there's a five dollar bill at the bottom of the lava.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2018, 07:24:19 PM »
Tell him that Nancy Pelosi said he's a pussy if he doesn't try!
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Offline Cavebear

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2018, 10:25:49 PM »
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Krakatoa has erupted and now Mt. Etna is letting it fly.  Time for Vesuvius to join the party.  It has not erupted since 1944.  My father was there with the 5th Army and said it was the most terrifying thing he ever saw.

While there is no specific connection between far-flung volcanoes erupting, it woukldn't surprise me greatly if many volcanoes did.  Tectonics are slow to change, but there have been times of greater volcanic activity than others. 

I keep wondering about the Yellowstone supervolcano myself.  It is overdue and will happen eventually.  Fortunately, my lifetime is nothing compared to the "when". 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2018, 10:36:24 PM »
I was in the forum of Pompeii in 1996 - probably standing right about where this photo was taken from...



and thinking - "the poor fuckers never had a chance."
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Offline Cavebear

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2018, 10:41:11 PM »
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I was in the forum of Pompeii in 1996 - probably standing right about where this photo was taken from...

and thinking - "the poor fuckers never had a chance."

Well, they did, actually.  The smart ones fled early.  The ones we know about are the cavity fillings of the ones who didn't, those who hid under the collapsing roofs, and those who tried to cart out their wealth too slowly. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2018, 10:59:57 PM »
The town was hammered by an earthquake some 15 years before and a lot of people - basically summer residents from the Roman upper classes - simply never returned.  Much as with Hurricane Katrina, the poor had no where else to go.

It's unclear how cognizant the Romans were that Vesuvius WAS a volcano.  Certainly, they knew what a volcano was - although they did not have a word for it - as they had taken Sicily in the 3d century BC and had been sailing around Stromboli long before that but the last scientifically attested eruption of Vesuvius was in the Bronze Age c 1500 BC.  There was no Rome at that time.  It probably pre-dates the Etruscans.  So earthquakes were common.  Volcanic eruptions?  Not so much.
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Online Baruch

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2018, 11:55:07 PM »
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The town was hammered by an earthquake some 15 years before and a lot of people - basically summer residents from the Roman upper classes - simply never returned.  Much as with Hurricane Katrina, the poor had no where else to go.

It's unclear how cognizant the Romans were that Vesuvius WAS a volcano.  Certainly, they knew what a volcano was - although they did not have a word for it - as they had taken Sicily in the 3d century BC and had been sailing around Stromboli long before that but the last scientifically attested eruption of Vesuvius was in the Bronze Age c 1500 BC.  There was no Rome at that time.  It probably pre-dates the Etruscans.  So earthquakes were common.  Volcanic eruptions?  Not so much.

In pagan understanding, it isn't about plate tectonics.  Mt Etna was the place above Tartarus, the deepest part of Hades, where Jupiter confined the Titans.  Earthquakes were thought to come from Neptune.  It would be hard to connect the wonderful fertility of the area, to the decay of old volcanic ash.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2018, 01:42:12 AM »
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The town was hammered by an earthquake some 15 years before and a lot of people - basically summer residents from the Roman upper classes - simply never returned.  Much as with Hurricane Katrina, the poor had no where else to go.

It's unclear how cognizant the Romans were that Vesuvius WAS a volcano.  Certainly, they knew what a volcano was - although they did not have a word for it - as they had taken Sicily in the 3d century BC and had been sailing around Stromboli long before that but the last scientifically attested eruption of Vesuvius was in the Bronze Age c 1500 BC.  There was no Rome at that time.  It probably pre-dates the Etruscans.  So earthquakes were common.  Volcanic eruptions?  Not so much.

I understand that most did not know what to expect when Vesuvius began to erupt.  But some did have the wit to see things looked bad.  That's why we have descriptions of the event from people who lived there. 

Sure, the poor generally stayed.  But if I understand correctly, even some of them left.  The found dead are many fewer than the population was.  And some tales about the eruption survive from Pliny the Younger who I think left by ship seeing a threat. 

Admittedly, little evidence is available.  Even Pliny the Younger is only documented to have written to a friend about it years later.  But it does seem that some people left, seeing a threat (even if they did not quite understand what the threat was).  Pliny was not alone on his ship after all.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Baruch

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2018, 03:05:04 AM »
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I understand that most did not know what to expect when Vesuvius began to erupt.  But some did have the wit to see things looked bad.  That's why we have descriptions of the event from people who lived there. 

Sure, the poor generally stayed.  But if I understand correctly, even some of them left.  The found dead are many fewer than the population was.  And some tales about the eruption survive from Pliny the Younger who I think left by ship seeing a threat. 

Admittedly, little evidence is available.  Even Pliny the Younger is only documented to have written to a friend about it years later.  But it does seem that some people left, seeing a threat (even if they did not quite understand what the threat was).  Pliny was not alone on his ship after all.

In a crisis, many people enter a fugue state of disorientation.  This is why many people on a sinking cruise ship don't make it to the life boats.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: When Will Vesuvius Join In?
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2018, 01:10:06 AM »
There was a story a while back that Pliny may have gotten the date wrong by a few months.
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

 

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