Author Topic: Hi  (Read 13941 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Hi
« Reply #525 on: February 13, 2019, 07:04:15 PM »
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Can you call it reincarnation if you have no way to access a past life?  I don't see any difference between reincarnation with a mind wipe, and two completely different beings.

I think you're referring to the Big Freeze, which is not quite the same as heat death because it's not a thin, homogeneous cloud of photons at the same temperature, it's just space and stray matter riding the eternal expansion forever into the darkness, cooling ever closer to absolute zero.

The other alternative fate is the Big Rip, should the acceleration become fast enough to not only separate galaxy clusters, but galaxies within clusters, then separate the galaxies themselves, ultimately expanding fast enough to tear all matter apart and finally the fabric of spacetime itself.

I'm not entirely sure whether the heat death of the universe remains possible under accelerating expansion.  I'll have to pester an astronomer over that.  :)

Pythagoras was the first Western person to claim he remembered past lives.  This was contrary to Greek theology.  He also co-invented modern maths.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Hi
« Reply #526 on: February 13, 2019, 07:05:26 PM »
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That might be a lot to a poor person anywhere.

Easy to fix.  Rob the rich, right ... Vladimir Illich?
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Hi
« Reply #527 on: February 13, 2019, 08:05:53 PM »
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Can you call it reincarnation if you have no way to access a past life?  I don't see any difference between reincarnation with a mind wipe, and two completely different beings.

I think you're referring to the Big Freeze, which is not quite the same as heat death because it's not a thin, homogeneous cloud of photons at the same temperature, it's just space and stray matter riding the eternal expansion forever into the darkness, cooling ever closer to absolute zero.

The other alternative fate is the Big Rip, should the acceleration become fast enough to not only separate galaxy clusters, but galaxies within clusters, then separate the galaxies themselves, ultimately expanding fast enough to tear all matter apart and finally the fabric of spacetime itself.

I'm not entirely sure whether the heat death of the universe remains possible under accelerating expansion.  I'll have to pester an astronomer over that.  :)

Depends on if this thing called a soul actually exists. It most likely doesn't, but assuming it did, your stream of consciousness could continue between lifetimes, even if your memories didn't. Some people think memories do survive reincarnation, though. It's just that those memories are buried and not easily available to the conscious mind. Supposedly, when the Dalai Lama reincarnates, they find him by presenting children with objects that were important to his past self, along with some random assortment of stuff serving as placebos in a sense. The Dalai Lama's reincarnated self is supposed to be drawn to the objects that are familiar to him. Of course, when you have a ton of kids doing the same test, plus having the confirmation bias at play, that test doesn't really serve as proof of anything, but that's how they justify their beliefs.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: Hi
« Reply #528 on: February 13, 2019, 08:10:23 PM »
I think that without continuity of memory it could not be considered the "same" person. But it may be more complicated than that.
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"Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is a child,"
Ecclesiastes 10:16
Or: Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is batshit crazy.

Offline Baruch

Re: Hi
« Reply #529 on: February 13, 2019, 11:43:56 PM »
If you read how traditionally, they chose the new Dalai Lama or Pachen Lama ... it was basically monks using objects or people from the dead predecessor, and seeing if a child was attracted to them or not.  In that sense, they were testing for continuity of memory.  Being a blood relation was being filtered out.  So not like a monarchy.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: Hi
« Reply #530 on: February 14, 2019, 05:29:22 AM »
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Can you call it reincarnation if you have no way to access a past life?  I don't see any difference between reincarnation with a mind wipe, and two completely different beings.

Exactly! Thank you. I Always say that to people when they brought up reΓ―ncarnation. What's the point?

And especially karma-influenced reincarnation. What if my dickery makes me a dungbeetle in my next life? So what? If the dung-beetle don't remember the bad stuff I did to earn it in that life, it's just going to go: "Man, I love shit. Dum-dee-dum-dee-do. Rolling a ball of shit I can lay my eggs in. Dum-dee-doo. Life is great."

"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Offline Baruch

Re: Hi
« Reply #531 on: February 14, 2019, 07:22:12 AM »
Karma is impersonal, not personal.  It is like ... a life accumulates dickishness ... or exhausts dickishness ... regardless of memories (which would make it personal).  Like cholesterol.  Western people worry about individual guilt.  Tradition worries about collective shame.  Karma is past all of that.  A variable original sin, that is expiated or not thru further lives, not thru faith in Jesus for example.  For Eastern influenced people, Jesus offers something very similar to Mahayana Buddhism .. instant enlightenment = instant nullification of dickishness or cholesterol.  Theravada Buddhism is closer to the original Hinduism ... it might take many lives to reach enlightenment or moksha.

Pythagoras didn't show any signs of knowing about karma, just reincarnation ... which even Greeks already had, except you definitely couldn't carry memories of self forward.  Other non-Greek people had similar ideas of reincarnation ... Celts for example.  For Celts you simply bounced endlessly between two worlds ... and the nether world was the good one, not this one.  Which is the opposite of the Greek view (Hades).
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Hi
« Reply #532 on: February 14, 2019, 09:19:23 AM »
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You really think that an eternal existence wouldn't be torture, no matter what it's like? Imagine having lived for so long that you've done everything. You've met everyone, you've done all you could ever hope to accomplish, and nothing surprises you any more. You have no more goals, nothing to strive for, you'd be doomed to an eternal existence of boredom.


Why are you so negative?
Why anyone would want to end a state of nirvikalpa samadhi?


Quote
Reincarnation would be a better option, since you'd essentially be getting a mind wipe between each lifetime, but even that wouldn't be eternal. Our universe is headed towards a state of heat death. One day, there will be no more light in the sky. Eventually, even the blackholes will die, and the universe will have effectively expanded so much that it will be functionally empty. What happens to your consciousness then?


If the universe would end also God would but that is not possible as God is eternal. (according to yoga)


When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Re: Hi
« Reply #533 on: February 14, 2019, 09:21:40 AM »
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Karma is impersonal, not personal. 
Change the word 'karma' to universe, and there you have it.  The universe does not give a shit about you--or anything, since the universe is a thing and can't feel--it just is and it just does what it does.  Impersonal. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Hi
« Reply #534 on: February 14, 2019, 09:34:04 AM »
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More likely designed to make money for the yoga teacher. I wonder how much Arik pays for the yoga lessons.


I help you to put your wonder in a state of absolute peace.

Some teacher charge $5 for each asanas lesson better known for yoga posture or yoga exercise.
That is to pay for rent, electricity, and other bills.
Other teachers charge nothing and even those who charge would do it for free if you tell them that you got no money.
Meditation instead is absolutely free.

I hope this help you to get rid of your wondering.
When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Re: Hi
« Reply #535 on: February 14, 2019, 09:54:29 AM »
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Change the word 'karma' to universe, and there you have it.  The universe does not give a shit about you--or anything, since the universe is a thing and can't feel--it just is and it just does what it does.  Impersonal.


Universe and karma are two totally different things.

The universe is made of the 5 fundamental factors such as space, air, energy-light, water and matter.
Some people however say that is all matter but that is not important.
In any case this universe has nothing to do with karma so in a way it is impersonal.

Karma instead is a factor that affect our lives.

As in physic it is said that every action must have an equal and opposite reaction also in the consciousness realm the same thing apply.
That doesn't mean that the reaction apply straightaway.

It depend really.
Suppose someone kill several people.
One life wouldn't be enough to pay for it so that person will have to be reborn again and again and killed as many times as he-she killed those people.
But again is not so straightforward because that person may repent and the debt can be paid in a different way.
(according to yoga)



 
When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Re: Hi
« Reply #536 on: February 14, 2019, 10:06:42 AM »
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Depends on if this thing called a soul actually exists. It most likely doesn't, but assuming it did, your stream of consciousness could continue between lifetimes, even if your memories didn't. Some people think memories do survive reincarnation, though. It's just that those memories are buried and not easily available to the conscious mind. Supposedly, when the Dalai Lama reincarnates, they find him by presenting children with objects that were important to his past self, along with some random assortment of stuff serving as placebos in a sense. The Dalai Lama's reincarnated self is supposed to be drawn to the objects that are familiar to him. Of course, when you have a ton of kids doing the same test, plus having the confirmation bias at play, that test doesn't really serve as proof of anything, but that's how they justify their beliefs.


My teacher did explained why it is not possible to remember past lives.

That would be a terrible burden that would slow down or prevent our progress altogether.
This life is hard enough because we are stuck with our mistakes.
Mistakes that we have done in this life.
If on top of that we would also remember the mistakes of our previous lives then it would be too much to put up with.

Only small children up to the age of 5 or 6 are allowed to remember their previous lives but as they grow over that age the memory of their previous lives goes and that make sense.
When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Re: Hi
« Reply #537 on: February 14, 2019, 10:22:03 AM »
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No, I don't worry about what happens when I die.  I have a pretty good idea what does happen, which is to simply rot away--star dust to star dust.  Humans have consciousness not from magical or mysterious ways, but from evolution.  I don't know all the steps that that would take; but for me 'I don't know' does not = god must have done it.  One day humans will have a very good idea of exactly how our consciousness came about and that answer will be supplied by science and not magic or fictional stories or creatures.


So you say..........Humans have consciousness not from magical or mysterious ways, but from evolution...........

Whose evolution Mike?
Their own evolution trough many many lives or somebody else evolution?




Let us see if your answer make any sense.




When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Re: Hi
« Reply #538 on: February 14, 2019, 11:13:39 AM »
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Why are you so negative?

I'm not being negative. I'm being realistic. You should try it sometimes.

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Why anyone would want to end a state of nirvikalpa samadhi?

I have no idea what you just said, but I don't really care either so...

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If the universe would end also God would but that is not possible as God is eternal. (according to yoga)

That's not evidence. You can't start with a presupposition and use it to justify your preconceived conclusion. The universe is expanding, and there is no reason to think it'll ever slow down or reverse itself. That's just wishful thinking.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: Hi
« Reply #539 on: February 14, 2019, 11:24:45 AM »
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Universe and karma are two totally different things.

The universe is made of the 5 fundamental factors such as space, air, energy-light, water and matter.
Some people however say that is all matter but that is not important.
In any case this universe has nothing to do with karma so in a way it is impersonal.

Karma instead is a factor that affect our lives.

As in physic it is said that every action must have an equal and opposite reaction also in the consciousness realm the same thing apply.
That doesn't mean that the reaction apply straightaway.

It depend really.
Suppose someone kill several people.
One life wouldn't be enough to pay for it so that person will have to be reborn again and again and killed as many times as he-she killed those people.
But again is not so straightforward because that person may repent and the debt can be paid in a different way.
(according to yoga)
A very nice and enjoyable piece of fiction you have going there. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

 

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