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Started by Arik, December 23, 2018, 10:31:59 AM

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Unbeliever

Well, if Arik has had thousands of NDEs then it's no wonder he believes in weird shit. Must have brain damage after nearly dying so many times.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on January 18, 2019, 01:12:12 PM
Well, if Arik has had thousands of NDEs then it's no wonder he believes in weird shit. Must have brain damage after nearly dying so many times.

After all, a cat only gets 8 NDEs ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Arik

#362
Quote from: trdsf on January 18, 2019, 12:10:22 PM
Well, all the observations, data and evidence are on my side.  I'm not "coming up with comments", that's your tactic, and this is just more cowardice and dishonesty and hypocrisy on your part.

PROVIDE YOUR DATA.

If you can't do that, you don't have evidence.  Period.


You could well be smart in many ways but there is something that at this stage in time you can not possibly be smart enough and that is to be a detective.
In this job you are not clever enough.
No way Mister.

You come to fast conclusion without even look at all details.

On the contrary I did.
I studied these NDEs for quite sometime and I found the evidence that the consciousness never die.

Step by step I got there.
You got to start from the very beginning.
People are real, doctors and hospitals where it all happen are real and witnesses are real.

We got these people who really died as confirmed by real doctors so hallucinations are out  because hallucinations happen when the brain is not dead yet but the brain is dead.
That only means that the consciousness that experience these NDEs has left the brain-body.
While hallucinations are hardly remember clearly and only for a short time  NDEs are remembered quite clearly even after many years.
A brain in trouble can not possibly put together something clear, sharp, neat and well-defined.
That obviously means that wasn't the brain that experienced these NDEs.
With no oxigen-blood flowing through how could a brain do that?

But let us come to more evidence Mister.
Most of these people who had an NDE lie dead on the casualty room and doctors and nurses try to bring the chap back to life.
While all this happen these dead people (body-brain dead not consciousness dead) can see from above what goes on below and once the doctors succeed to bring them back they can describe what was going on to the incredulity of the doctors and nurses.
This could only happen because the consciousness was well alive outside their dead body.

Sorry Mister but unlike you I done my homework by going through many  NDEs so I can be able to know what you ignore.

Do the home work yourself before you shout swearing, calling names and scream with big words in red so people may have some more respect for you.
Thanks.


https://www.nderf.org/Archives/exceptional.html




When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

trdsf

Quote from: Arik on January 21, 2019, 09:22:15 AM
Do the home work yourself before you shout swearing, calling names and scream with big words in red so people may have some more respect for you.

https://www.nderf.org/Archives/exceptional.html
I looked up this website.  An oncologist and an attorney are not neuroscientists, and all they do is collect anectodal reports.  So, still no evidence.  Saying "more" evidence is dishonest since you haven't provided any to begin with.

If you would pay attention and actually deliver what's asked rather than dodge, weave, bluff, bluster, and make shit up, we wouldn't have to swear, namecall, and otherwise rail to get you to take care of your responsibilities as the claim-maker, and I will continue doing it until you either actually do so, or admit that you cannot, so I say again:

PROVIDE YOUR DATA.

Since you have trouble with what data and evidence actually means, let's just have you provide something simple: point me to a refereed paper in a journal of neuroscience â€" or even a journal of general science, like Nature â€" backing up your claims.

And here's where you dodge and weave and bluff and bluster and make shit up to try to weasel out of your responsibility as the claimant again.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Arik

Quote from: trdsf on January 22, 2019, 02:02:43 AM
I looked up this website.  An oncologist and an attorney are not neuroscientists, and all they do is collect anectodal reports.  So, still no evidence.  Saying "more" evidence is dishonest since you haven't provided any to begin with.

If you would pay attention and actually deliver what's asked rather than dodge, weave, bluff, bluster, and make shit up, we wouldn't have to swear, namecall, and otherwise rail to get you to take care of your responsibilities as the claim-maker, and I will continue doing it until you either actually do so, or admit that you cannot, so I say again:

PROVIDE YOUR DATA.

Since you have trouble with what data and evidence actually means, let's just have you provide something simple: point me to a refereed paper in a journal of neuroscience â€" or even a journal of general science, like Nature â€" backing up your claims.

And here's where you dodge and weave and bluff and bluster and make shit up to try to weasel out of your responsibility as the claimant again.


Oh, well if you need the opinion of a neuroscientist-neurosugeon here I got one in Eben Alexander.
He had an NDE.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=eben+alexander&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=rjFTWpD8Oq3r8AfElb2ACg

However I am sure that you will dismiss even his evidence.
In fact you will dismiss the evidence of anyone who contradict your beliefs no matter what.
In order to keep alive your fantasy no evidence will work.
Nothing.

Once the fact that the consciousness never die become more and more real to the materialists then all other dogmas will collapse one by one but of course people like you will try to cling to your fantasy even with the nails until the grip can't hold anymore and swearing, shouting and write big words in red will only be the last show of a clown that doesn't make laugh anymore.
This must be the mental bankruptcy at his very best Mister.

Oh, by the way how do you explain how a dead person can witness what doctors and nurses think and do to his body and then once back in his body describe to them the particulars?






When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Baruch

If the ego is an illusion, how can someone defend it? ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Blackleaf

NDE's are proof that NDE's happen. That's it. It's not proof of any immortal consciousness any more than a dream is evidence that alternate dimensions exist. We know why NDE's happen. When a person experiences an NDE, their neurons are firing like crazy. Because they're not completely dead yet. Which is why they're called near death experiences. They're little more than hyperactive dreams.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Unbeliever

#367
The phrase "near death" just means near death, it doesn't mean dead. Like Wesley, the Man in  Black, was "mostly dead," not all the way dead.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

#368
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 22, 2019, 04:14:53 PM
NDE's are proof that NDE's happen. That's it. It's not proof of any immortal consciousness any more than a dream is evidence that alternate dimensions exist. We know why NDE's happen. When a person experiences an NDE, their neurons are firing like crazy. Because they're not completely dead yet. Which is why they're called near death experiences. They're little more than hyperactive dreams.

Correct.  But then when interpretation is applied to raw data (from external or internal sources) the wicket gets sticky, doesn't it?

If one accepts that Plato is right about Eternal Forms, and that modern science is the way to determine at least approximately what those Forms are ... then one accepts that the majority are in The Cave, and that only the Illuminati who have escaped the cave, can see reality for what it is, not as shadows on the wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfydro4X2t0

Believing in a very narrow version of Platonism ... isn't that White Privilege.  Should we check our privilege?  Are you super-Greek, and the rest are either hoi polloi or barbaroi?

Also, we are always trapped in the trap net of words, in how not only we express ourselves to others, but also how we express ourselves, to ourselves aka thought.

As in Japanese Bunraku, you have to make a suspension of disbelief to enjoy it ...  the puppeteers, however plainly visible (though they wear black to blend in) are "invisible" to the audience.  But not literally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qcBSAwQVpw

So guys, Occidental much?  Get some Timothy Leary and Ram Dass, tune in and drop out?  Doesn't this link right back to story-telling, to the desire to control the narrative for fun and profit?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on January 22, 2019, 04:20:20 PM
The phrase "near death" just means near death, it doesn't mean dead. Like Wesley, the Man in  Black, was means "mostly dead," not all the way dead.

Semantics.  Y'all say I am not a demi-god.  But I am, because you can't privilege your own dictionary.  Within my ever improving dictionary, my claim makes sense.  Stick that up your Funk & Wagnalls ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

trdsf

Quote from: Arik on January 22, 2019, 09:46:41 AM

Oh, well if you need the opinion of a neuroscientist-neurosugeon here I got one in Eben Alexander.
He had an NDE.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=eben+alexander&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=rjFTWpD8Oq3r8AfElb2ACg
Oh, lookie!  He found exactly none!  You were asked for a refereed paper from a journal, not a non-scientific book of anecdote and opinion.

And not a very good neuroscientist, considering all the firings and malpractice suits and the altering medical records to try to cover up his mistakes.

His basis for his position?  He just "decided" that science can't explain it.  This is the fallacy of personal incredulity: "I can't figure out how it happened, therefore woo."  Also, this is a position of deep arrogance since the proclaimer by extension makes the subsumed claim of knowing that something can never be explained.

Still not evidence, just opinion and gobbledygook.

Still waiting for real, reputable data.  Not expecting it.  The only evidence you've provided me is that you haven't the faintest idea how evidence works.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Arik

Quote from: trdsf on January 23, 2019, 02:58:45 AM
Oh, lookie!  He found exactly none!  You were asked for a refereed paper from a journal, not a non-scientific book of anecdote and opinion.


I wished I could have answered before but with no internet connection for over a week I was stuck.

Never mind, now I can so let us talk about your ...........refereed paper from a journal.

Have you ever seen anyone who published any evidence about his-her love for an other entity in any scientific journal?
You keep on beating the same drum of nonsense Mister.
How on earth can anyone do that?
You keep on asking stupid questions as if something abstract could turn into something physical and from there it would be easy to see some physical evidence.
You don't get it Mister, do you?





QuoteAnd not a very good neuroscientist, considering all the firings and malpractice suits and the altering medical records to try to cover up his mistakes.

I have no idea whether the allegations are real or fabricated.
Even if they are real that wouldn't make any difference regarding his own ND experience.
We all do mistakes here and there during our life so what?
Shell we live in the past and be locked out from any possible progress?
Shell we live with the guilt feeling for ever?
Life goes on Mister and the good that follow must stand.
That is what evolution of the consciousness is all about.


QuoteHis basis for his position?  He just "decided" that science can't explain it.  This is the fallacy of personal incredulity: "I can't figure out how it happened, therefore woo."  Also, this is a position of deep arrogance since the proclaimer by extension makes the subsumed claim of knowing that something can never be explained.


That is a load of garbage.

He didn't decided anything.
Even a demented idiot knows that it is not possible to explain in a physical way what is not physical.
Consciousness is not physical but fools still think that something abstract can be explained in a physical way.
Evidence is there but is strictly personal.
As you can not give evidence that your love for somebody is real also nobody can give evidence that spiritual love is real.
So evidence is there but is limited to the one who perceive and that make a lot of sense.


QuoteStill not evidence just opinion and gobbledygook.

Still waiting for real, reputable data.  Not expecting it.  The only evidence you've provided me is that you haven't the faintest idea how evidence works.


Oh, well if the love that you may feel within for someone is just an opinion then you are very very confused.
Time to open your eyes Mister and leave the fantasy world where you so far lived.
Good luck.









When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Plu

QuoteHave you ever seen anyone who published any evidence about his-her love for an other entity in any scientific journal?

The concept of love and how it works is a huge subject within neuroscience, with entire books written on the topic.

Also, hi. You have a very long introduction topic :)

Arik

Quote from: Plu on January 29, 2019, 07:44:47 AM
The concept of love and how it works is a huge subject within neuroscience, with entire books written on the topic.

Also, hi. You have a very long introduction topic :)

Neuroscience which study the brain and the nervous system can only see an elevated release of hormones when love permeated the life of an individual but  that is where it all stopped so far.
If the hormones are released by this or that gland neuroscience could not yet understand whether that related to physical love, mental or spiritual love but day after day is getting closer.
In any case even if this science would say that spiritual love related to God atheists still wouldn't believe a single thing.
When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Plu

Quote from: Arik on January 29, 2019, 08:41:44 AM
Neuroscience which study the brain and the nervous system can only see an elevated release of hormones when love permeated the life of an individual but  that is where it all stopped so far.
If the hormones are released by this or that gland neuroscience could not yet understand whether that related to physical love, mental or spiritual love but day after day is getting closer.
In any case even if this science would say that spiritual love related to God atheists still wouldn't believe a single thing.

I don't know what a "spiritual love" is, but it seems that all forms of love are related to hormones and glands, including for things like "God", whatever those are. :-)