Author Topic: Hi  (Read 8913 times)

Offline aitm

Re: Hi
« Reply #315 on: January 13, 2019, 03:47:59 PM »
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There is evidence for life.  Materialist deny it.  There is evidence for consciousness.  Materialists deny it.  Common denominator?  Autistic 13 year old males, who can't get over that Santa Claus isn't real.  There are many stages on the path to full nihilism; including misanthropy and self hatred.  Think of a three year old having a tantrum on the floor of the grocery store, embarrassing his mother who spoiled him.

I know in your "consciousness" that made sense......after your sentence the rest is grabbing words off a plate. Even your enlightened "consciousness" must understand that if your statement makes no sense to those you present it to, it means nothing. Try harder, I know you can do it.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Online Baruch

Re: Hi
« Reply #316 on: January 13, 2019, 05:12:06 PM »
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I know in your "consciousness" that made sense......after your sentence the rest is grabbing words off a plate. Even your enlightened "consciousness" must understand that if your statement makes no sense to those you present it to, it means nothing. Try harder, I know you can do it.

But ... but atoms have no life, no consciousness.  Please demonstrate, other than hand waving, how their combination produces life and consciousness.  Saying that "science" has already figured this out, or will some day ... is hand waving.  Epiphenomenalism is a philosophy, not science.  Claiming "there is no other choice" isn't rational.  If one wants to legitimate a philosophy, fine with me, we can talk philosophy, including metaphysics ;-)  There is a section to discuss that.

But this guy, Arik, he is talking philosophy more than theology, psychology more than religion.  Claiming that psychology is BS, isn't rational either.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Hi
« Reply #317 on: January 13, 2019, 07:34:40 PM »
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No need to kill your father and marry your mother, eh Oedipus? (sarc)  My father was Santa Claus, and my mother Mrs Santa Claus.  The real kind, not the marketing kind.  Not a belief, but for real.  Of course if you had no parents (raised by wolves) or your parents only gave you lumps of coal, I weep for your lost childhood.

Ah, all grown up?  The ultimate growing up is attending your own funeral.  Are you looking forward to being "fully" mature/over-ripe?  Will you be giving the world, the middle finger (right hand) during the viewing of your body?  So many pr126 folks here, whose inner child is long dead.

Arik, being of S Asian persuasion, he will understand at least as metaphor, that reality is the lila (play) of the sleeping Brahman, a wet dream.  Those who can't even "get it up" can't relate to that.  It does get harder and harder as you age.
All grown up?  Yes..............and no.  I am in at least my third childhood; maybe never left my first one.  I can now pretty much do what I want and I love that part.  Growing old is something that is happening.  Do I like it?  Yes.............and no.  There is good/bad at every stage or life.  Take it one day at a time and deal with any issues as they pop up.  As my late great mom said many times--growing old is not for the weak.  Yep.  But there are enjoyable things about being/growing old (and older).  And it does beat the alternative.  And when that alternative comes, that will be that.  Back to my original state of atoms. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Baruch

Re: Hi
« Reply #318 on: January 13, 2019, 10:20:50 PM »
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All grown up?  Yes..............and no.  I am in at least my third childhood; maybe never left my first one.  I can now pretty much do what I want and I love that part.  Growing old is something that is happening.  Do I like it?  Yes.............and no.  There is good/bad at every stage or life.  Take it one day at a time and deal with any issues as they pop up.  As my late great mom said many times--growing old is not for the weak.  Yep.  But there are enjoyable things about being/growing old (and older).  And it does beat the alternative.  And when that alternative comes, that will be that.  Back to my original state of atoms.

Your atoms come and go every 3 years, in your body.  You aren't atomically the same person you were 3 years ago.  You just think you are.  But that is part of the rhetoric of Buddhism to deny the ego.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Hi
« Reply #319 on: January 13, 2019, 11:12:32 PM »
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Your atoms come and go every 3 years, in your body.  You aren't atomically the same person you were 3 years ago.  You just think you are.  But that is part of the rhetoric of Buddhism to deny the ego.
No, I don't think I am the same as I was 3 yrs ago.  I may not be a great fan of change, but the simple fact is that change is constant.  The only thing that is constant is change.  That can be upsetting and something I can try to resist.  But it is simply a fact that I have never been the same in any 3 yr. span.  You do like to make pronouncements, don't you.  I have never thought I did not change.  Yes, some of the rhetoric of Buddhism (or each and every religion) is positive.  I don't care what you believe; what I take exception to is theists insistence that I believe what they do, act as they tell me to, when they tell me what my morals should be--or even what morals are--what to accept, or do anything they tell me to do. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Hydra009

Re: Hi
« Reply #320 on: January 13, 2019, 11:40:36 PM »
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I agree that it wouldn't work in a court of law but on the other hand love has very little to do with laws and rules which the society base their arguments upon.
If it wouldn't work in a court of law, it most likely won't work here.  You should assume an extremely skeptical stance on your position then work on things that support your conclusion (things that are difficult/impossible to explain with another conclusion), eventually making the case that your conclusion is the most likely explanation to explain a body of known facts.

TL;DR:
Good evidence:  The Roman Empire never conquered Japan due to maps showing the Roman Empire's borders never extending nearly that far, no evidence of contact between these two peoples, etc
Bad evidence:  Pizza is better than pasta, you know it in your heart.

Online Baruch

Re: Hi
« Reply #321 on: January 14, 2019, 04:03:32 AM »
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No, I don't think I am the same as I was 3 yrs ago.  I may not be a great fan of change, but the simple fact is that change is constant.  The only thing that is constant is change.  That can be upsetting and something I can try to resist.  But it is simply a fact that I have never been the same in any 3 yr. span.  You do like to make pronouncements, don't you.  I have never thought I did not change.  Yes, some of the rhetoric of Buddhism (or each and every religion) is positive.  I don't care what you believe; what I take exception to is theists insistence that I believe what they do, act as they tell me to, when they tell me what my morals should be--or even what morals are--what to accept, or do anything they tell me to do.

Oppression is bad.  But that comes with being in society.  In society "I" am the correct one, and everyone else is wrong.  The more authoritarian society, the badder it is.  Doesn't matter to me what the excuse is (crime, foreign enemies etc).  But no human is autonomous, though we like to pretend we are.  Getting along with coworkers and bosses/customers for instance.  So annoying.  Would be so nice to be able to just tell them to fuck off, right?  And the government, OMG, taxes and traffic laws etc.  But compromise is necessary to be a functional adult.  When an individual absolutely insists on some behavior, that society sanctions ... then problems arise.  Individualism is good, sociopathy is bad.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Hi
« Reply #322 on: January 14, 2019, 08:58:10 AM »
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Your atoms come and go every 3 years, in your body.  You aren't atomically the same person you were 3 years ago.  You just think you are.  But that is part of the rhetoric of Buddhism to deny the ego.


Interesting issue Baruch.

The cells that make up the body die every so many days and new cells replace them until the final death of the body.
These new cells that replace the dead ones will be created and reflect the consciousness of that particular person so not all cells will be the same person to person that is why the cells of a drunkard can not be as sentient as those of a good person.

To me it is the consciousness that control the way these new replacing cells will have to be.

The materialist idea that the brain produce the consciousness is just the opposite of what in reality happen.
When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Re: Hi
« Reply #323 on: January 14, 2019, 09:26:42 AM »
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All grown up?  Yes..............and no.  I am in at least my third childhood; maybe never left my first one.  I can now pretty much do what I want and I love that part.  Growing old is something that is happening.  Do I like it?  Yes.............and no.  There is good/bad at every stage or life.  Take it one day at a time and deal with any issues as they pop up.  As my late great mom said many times--growing old is not for the weak.  Yep.  But there are enjoyable things about being/growing old (and older).  And it does beat the alternative.  And when that alternative comes, that will be that.  Back to my original state of atoms.


How can you go back to your original state of atoms?
They are gone by now.
Apparently the cells which are made by atoms die every so many days with the exception of the brain cells that last a life time and even those will go as physical death come so you can not possibly go back to your atoms.

The only place you can go back is to your consciousness but that is something that you will find out later on.





When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Re: Hi
« Reply #324 on: January 14, 2019, 09:40:52 AM »
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If it wouldn't work in a court of law, it most likely won't work here.  You should assume an extremely skeptical stance on your position then work on things that support your conclusion (things that are difficult/impossible to explain with another conclusion), eventually making the case that your conclusion is the most likely explanation to explain a body of known facts.


Also your evidence that you are in love with somebody wouldn't work in a court of law.
That doesn't mean that your love is not real.



Quote
Good evidence:  The Roman Empire never conquered Japan due to maps showing the Roman Empire's borders never extending nearly that far, no evidence of contact between these two peoples, etc
Bad evidence:  Pizza is better than pasta, you know it in your heart.

You don't get it Hydra, do you?

Your failing is that you expect that everything must be explained in a physical way even what is not physical.






When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Online Hydra009

Re: Hi
« Reply #325 on: January 14, 2019, 10:11:18 AM »
It is no vice to be wary of hucksters, apologists, and madmen.  Which one are you?

Re: Hi
« Reply #326 on: January 14, 2019, 10:20:13 AM »
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Oppression is bad.  But that comes with being in society.  In society "I" am the correct one, and everyone else is wrong.  The more authoritarian society, the badder it is.  Doesn't matter to me what the excuse is (crime, foreign enemies etc).  But no human is autonomous, though we like to pretend we are.  Getting along with coworkers and bosses/customers for instance.  So annoying.  Would be so nice to be able to just tell them to fuck off, right?  And the government, OMG, taxes and traffic laws etc.  But compromise is necessary to be a functional adult.  When an individual absolutely insists on some behavior, that society sanctions ... then problems arise.  Individualism is good, sociopathy is bad.
I guess your outlook is just naturally pessimistic.  Not mine.  I have no urge to 'tell' 'them' off.  Yes, I do become impatient at times, angry, even; but that comes with being alive.  Yes, I did rail against my bosses until I learned how to deal with that.  I just told them what they wanted to hear and went ahead and did what I thought was best.  It worked.  Yes, I live in a society and that shapes/shaped me.  I've accepted that and do work arounds when I need to.  Individuality is good, individualism (anarchy at the extreme) not always that good.   
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Baruch

Re: Hi
« Reply #327 on: January 14, 2019, 01:06:45 PM »
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Interesting issue Baruch.

The cells that make up the body die every so many days and new cells replace them until the final death of the body.
These new cells that replace the dead ones will be created and reflect the consciousness of that particular person so not all cells will be the same person to person that is why the cells of a drunkard can not be as sentient as those of a good person.

To me it is the consciousness that control the way these new replacing cells will have to be.

The materialist idea that the brain produce the consciousness is just the opposite of what in reality happen.

I see it as a dialectic, not one sided.  The idea that the replacement of cells is done independently of the rest of the body, is ridiculous.  The idea that the mind has no impact on the function of the body (one direction, the mind is just one directional neural one-off) is also ridiculous.  Materialism isn't just one sided, it is an over simplification.   A rationalization.  For agenda/issues completely unrelated (I want to rob banks, I want to rape women etc).
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Online Baruch

Re: Hi
« Reply #328 on: January 14, 2019, 01:08:30 PM »
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I guess your outlook is just naturally pessimistic.  Not mine.  I have no urge to 'tell' 'them' off.  Yes, I do become impatient at times, angry, even; but that comes with being alive.  Yes, I did rail against my bosses until I learned how to deal with that.  I just told them what they wanted to hear and went ahead and did what I thought was best.  It worked.  Yes, I live in a society and that shapes/shaped me.  I've accepted that and do work arounds when I need to.  Individuality is good, individualism (anarchy at the extreme) not always that good.

So you are Tip Toe, Through The Tulips With Me?
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Hi
« Reply #329 on: January 14, 2019, 01:17:03 PM »
Wow, invoking Tiny Tim? What an eye-opener! LOL
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If something cannot logically exist due to incompatible properties, then it does not exist. The God of the Bible has such incompatible properties, and so it does not exist.    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Loginο»Ώ

 

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