News:

Welcome to our site!

Main Menu

Hi

Started by Arik, December 23, 2018, 10:31:59 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Arik

Quote from: Baruch on March 30, 2019, 11:47:08 AM
Unfortunately, wisdom is precious.  It can only be gained thru life experience.  I celebrate that someone has read a book about reading books.  But as in the movie Fahrenheit 451 ... to know a book requires that you become the book.  People attracted to talk, don't have time for practice.

So what is meditation?  One can read about it.  But one really doesn't know, unless one does it.  And overcoming one's own self is the hardest fight of all.  I was reading the Dao De Jing in the original this morning ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pcRXwoL0z4

In plain English.  Only if one has experienced the Dao, will any of these words make sense.  It is within the nature of both naturalists and humanists, to approach the Dao, because the Dao is in all.


I would like to add few words to your post taken from Sri Sathya Sai Baba even if he is not my spiritual teacher.

" I am God and you too are God. The only difference between you and Me is that while I am aware of it you are completely unaware."








When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Baruch

See posting in Philosophy, regarding un-woke racism of Western thought ...
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Unbeliever on March 29, 2019, 07:13:15 PM
My emotional state is always good, as far as my own personal situation is concerned, but the world is going to hell without even the benefit of a hand-basket.

Never thought the handbasket was required.  But I found some decent historical references at https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/hell-in-a-handbasket.html

Some suggested alliterative origins, some suggested that good souls went to heaven while bad ones were carried to hell, and I wonder if there was an idea that "small weak souls" could be carried in a handbasket whereas "large strong souls could not.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on April 01, 2019, 10:25:34 PM
Never thought the handbasket was required.  But I found some decent historical references at https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/hell-in-a-handbasket.html

Some suggested alliterative origins, some suggested that good souls went to heaven while bad ones were carried to hell, and I wonder if there was an idea that "small weak souls" could be carried in a handbasket whereas "large strong souls could not.

My reading of your interesting dictionary entry ... sounds like laziness is a path to damnation (given the original form of wheelbarrow).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on April 02, 2019, 02:01:57 AM
My reading of your interesting dictionary entry ... sounds like laziness is a path to damnation (given the original form of wheelbarrow).

Well, historical references are not exactly the same as a "dictionary entry".  But the idea of theists that there are sinfully-heavy souls which need to be carried to the afterlife in a basket (as opposed to just "floating up" to heaven) has some theistic logic to it in a medieval sort of way...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Arik

I haven't got the percentage of theists that believe in a physical hell and those who do not.
In fact nobody has got that percentage.

In any case I am quite glad that I am not sucked in that belief that by the way
is a creation of the clergy evil minds.






When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Baruch

The notion of Hell is thousands of years old, going back at least 4000 years.  Basically the product of virtue-signaling sadists and guilt-feeling masochists.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Arik

Quote from: Baruch on April 02, 2019, 12:45:48 PM
The notion of Hell is thousands of years old, going back at least 4000 years.  Basically the product of virtue-signaling sadists and guilt-feeling masochists.


One question for you mate.

Do you see any difference among a smart person a person with intellect and an intelligent person?
Can a person have all 3 qualities or not and how would you describe each of the 3 attributes?

Thanks.



When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Baruch

#863
Quote from: Arik on April 04, 2019, 09:03:32 AM

One question for you mate.

Do you see any difference among a smart person a person with intellect and an intelligent person?
Can a person have all 3 qualities or not and how would you describe each of the 3 attributes?

Thanks.


Synonyms are a great source of sin ;-)

There is knowledge.  There is understanding.  There is wisdom.  Usually "intelligent" of any kind simply means "clever" as in IQ tests.  I may or may not be able to rotate a 3 dimensional object in my mind (one kind of IQ question), but that has nothing to do with the previous three characteristics.  A chimp can use a stick to retrieve termites to eat.  That is clever.  But I wouldn't say he has risen to knowledge, understanding or wisdom.  And then there now is ... EQ, emotional quotient.  Autistic males have a high IQ, but aren't necessarily socially functioning.

A person with high social functioning, who isn't psychopath/sociopath ... I would say has a high EQ.  Pretty much autistic people are most lacking in that area.  But as idiot savants like Bobby Fischer, might be brilliant at chess.  Bobby Fischer claimed that his own play was't even thought out, it was recall.  His photographic memory could remember every chess position of every state of every game he had ever played.  You and I would have to take the existing position and think it out (several moves deep).

So the Bible says, get knowledge.  And with your knowledge, get understanding.  And with all your getting, get wisdom.  Many people have shallow knowledge (thanks Google).  Few have understanding (these are creative people necessarily).  If you understand something, you can not only recite what works, you can build something new and different that also works.  But what is wisdom?  Is it a good thing or not ... to build that thing.  So as in bioethics ... we might know how to modify the genes of a human.  We might even understand (but this is hard with genes) how to produce a baby who will be taller than average.  Wisdom consists in is it right to produce more basketball players?

Everyone was handicapped as a child.  Most handicaps aren't visible.  Most are mental or emotional.  On the Internet, you see proof of this every day.  So I have compassion, regardless of where someone is coming from, I am dealing with a person who's handicap is different than mine.  And that I think, is wise ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever


This was a really interesting article about consciousness:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-consciousness/

Neurologists are finally beginning to find methods for determining whether a person - or other animals - are conscious. This is great for those with locked-in syndrome, who are conscious but cannot interact at all with the world outside themselves. And it has nothing at all to do with whether or not their pineal glands are functional.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Hydra009

Quote from: Arik on April 02, 2019, 08:11:04 AM
I haven't got the percentage of theists that believe in a physical hell and those who do not.
In fact nobody has got that percentage.

In any case I am quite glad that I am not sucked in that belief that by the way
is a creation of the clergy evil minds.
I'm glad you managed to avoid the pitfalls of superstitious thinking.  *tongue firmly in cheek*

Baruch

#866
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 04, 2019, 01:21:50 PM
This was a really interesting article about consciousness:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-consciousness/

Neurologists are finally beginning to find methods for determining whether a person - or other animals - are conscious. This is great for those with locked-in syndrome, who are conscious but cannot interact at all with the world outside themselves. And it has nothing at all to do with whether or not their pineal glands are functional.

I suspect research with the severely autistic was involved.  Studying sick people is a great way to try to understand the human animal, at least on one level.  Nobody wants to study normal people.  Freud couldn't have had paying patients that way.  The Big Pharma would go broke.

Here is the larger set of articles ...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/custom-media/biggest-questions/

Scientism ... we be edge lords!  Basically arrogance of high functional autistic males.  Something of great popularity here ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Arik

Quote from: Hydra009 on April 04, 2019, 02:06:51 PM
I'm glad you managed to avoid the pitfalls of superstitious thinking.  *tongue firmly in cheek*


Here I got a question for you Hydra.

What is the difference between a theist who believe in an unproven physical hell and an atheist who believe in others unproven beliefs such as.............WHEN WE DIE IS ALL OVER..........AND.........THE CONSCIOUSNESS IS A PRODUCT OF THE BRAIN?

Thanks.
When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das

Baruch

The fact that Scientific American has an article on consciousness ... isn't that proof enough? (sarc)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Arik

Quote from: Baruch on April 04, 2019, 01:01:01 PM
Synonyms are a great source of sin ;-)

There is knowledge.  There is understanding.  There is wisdom.  Usually "intelligent" of any kind simply means "clever" as in IQ tests.  I may or may not be able to rotate a 3 dimensional object in my mind (one kind of IQ question), but that has nothing to do with the previous three characteristics.  A chimp can use a stick to retrieve termites to eat.  That is clever.  But I wouldn't say he has risen to knowledge, understanding or wisdom.  And then there now is ... EQ, emotional quotient.  Autistic males have a high IQ, but aren't necessarily socially functioning.

A person with high social functioning, who isn't psychopath/sociopath ... I would say has a high EQ.  Pretty much autistic people are most lacking in that area.  But as idiot savants like Bobby Fischer, might be brilliant at chess.  Bobby Fischer claimed that his own play was't even thought out, it was recall.  His photographic memory could remember every chess position of every state of every game he had ever played.  You and I would have to take the existing position and think it out (several moves deep).

So the Bible says, get knowledge.  And with your knowledge, get understanding.  And with all your getting, get wisdom.  Many people have shallow knowledge (thanks Google).  Few have understanding (these are creative people necessarily).  If you understand something, you can not only recite what works, you can build something new and different that also works.  But what is wisdom?  Is it a good thing or not ... to build that thing.  So as in bioethics ... we might know how to modify the genes of a human.  We might even understand (but this is hard with genes) how to produce a baby who will be taller than average.  Wisdom consists in is it right to produce more basketball players?

Everyone was handicapped as a child.  Most handicaps aren't visible.  Most are mental or emotional.  On the Internet, you see proof of this every day.  So I have compassion, regardless of where someone is coming from, I am dealing with a person who's handicap is different than mine.  And that I think, is wise ;-)


Actually I never thought in terms of being compassionate or understanding when I see someone who hasn't got intellect or any other quality.

That was not what I intended to talk about.
Of course I like everyone whether they are clever, intellectual knowledgeable, intelligent or not.
All I was looking from you was to know what is your understanding about the 3 attributes that I did mention.

Years ago one of my neighbor (now dead) always show his great intellect which is something that in this life I will never be able to match also because my aim lie elsewhere.
I just could not believe how knowledgeable he was but that intellect was the only thing that he cared in life.

One thing however made me think a lot.

If as the materialists say there is only one life then this guy was on the correct track so to speak because in this case what a person achieve in this material world represent everything and that would also show to be intelligent because what is to be achieved is achieved in full or nearly, however if the life continue after our body die then he would only remain intellectual knowledgeable but not intelligent because in this case intelligence is related to our progress outside this physical reality.

To me a poor illiterate person which aim is to get closer and closer to what may lie outside this physical-material world is a lot smarter and intelligent that a person with an enormous intellect so to me being smart, intellectual knowledgeable and intelligent do not always go hand in hand.





When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you’re the one smiling and everyone around you is crying. Tulsi Das