Hi

[Arik]

And exactly how is it that you know this?

Simple UB.

Humans are never satisfied with the limited.

You had a fully function box monitor, didn't you but as soon as you saw the new flat monitor in the shop you discarded the old box and got the flat screen one.
But this is not the end because as soon as a new model with come out you will do the same with the one you got now.
Everybody does that and they do because human thirst can only be satisfied with the unlimited but the unlimited can not exist within the physical-material arena.

From here every smart person will conclude that it is only outside this material universe that the unlimited exist as already proven by anyone engaged seriously in spirituality and by thousand of those who had an NDE which came back to describe the ultimate reality where the infinite is the only way able to put an end to human thirst for the unlimited and the search for peace of mind.

So obviously the truth is nowhere to be found within the material dimension because in this dimension everything is of limited nature.

[Arik]

Truth is evidence that can be shown to others by means of shared information or logical discussion.

Ok. if you put it in this way then you should be able to show me that within your soul really exist a very deep love for your lover.

Can you do that?

Faith is unsupported by evidence, and depends on a superiority of trust over evidence.

A lot of faith it is build on unsupported evidence but again some faith it is build on facts so I wouldn't come out with these UNSUPPORTED claims.

Theism is faith-based.  There is no evidence for it in any factual basis.

Once again you come out with unsupported evidence.
Although many theists base all the trust in faith other do not.
I base my belief in something that works like yoga.

Isn't it strange that all faith-based ideas have NO evidential basis?  Wouldn't you think that, at some time, a fact would have SLIPPED in somewhere?

There are a lot of facts but most people are too blind to understand anything beside not all reality can be demonstrated to other people as I just show you in your first question.

I do not pay attention to anything not fact-based...

Sure, it is a fact that your love for someone is real but at the same time it is impossible for you to present any evidence to other that what is inside your soul is real.

How on earth can you expect that other people demonstrate to you that their love for God is real?

Who told you that all facts should be demonstrable to be real?

[Unbeliever]

Simple UB.

Humans are never satisfied with the limited.

You had a fully function box monitor, didn't you but as soon as you saw the new flat monitor in the shop you discarded the old box and got the flat screen one.
But this is not the end because as soon as a new model with come out you will do the same with the one you got now.
Everybody does that and they do because human thirst can only be satisfied with the unlimited but the unlimited can not exist within the physical-material arena.

From here every smart person will conclude that it is only outside this material universe that the unlimited exist as already proven by anyone engaged seriously in spirituality and by thousand of those who had an NDE which came back to describe the ultimate reality where the infinite is the only way able to put an end to human thirst for the unlimited and the search for peace of mind.

So obviously the truth is nowhere to be found within the material dimension because in this dimension everything is of limited nature.

But what about those of us, like me, who aren't very smart?

[Blackleaf]

Your problem BL is that you do not know how evolution works along with materialists so you make a hell of a confusion.

But let us see your comment.

1) You say...............Energy can't be destroyed, but it can change forms......................

Who ever said that energy doesn't change?
Not me BL.

Obviously as consciousness that by the way is also energy gain in awareness through the evolution process she (rather than it) is bound to change form.
If that wouldn't be the case then matter would stay matter, plants stay plants and so animals and human stay what they are and of course matter wouldn't turn in anything else in the first place.

Have you ever seem a creeper moving and moving in search of something?
That is all about evolution of the consciousness.
That consciousness is not happy to stay were she is.
Exactly the same as animals and humans.
There is a force that tell to those consciousness.............GO AHEAD......GO AHEAD......... so the awareness increase in a never end effort to go higher and higher.


2) You say.............. What you're proposing by saying that the consciousness must survive the death of of the brain is like saying the image on a TV screen must continue to exist after you break it. That's not how reality works......................


More confusion BL.
Evolution of the consciousness is not the same in everyone and everything so your idea that you can compare a human consciousness with one that is millions times less evolved such as an image doesn't make much sense at all however is also true that if one manage to exist also the other must manage to exist but with a difference BL.
While an evolved consciousness such as the one of a human present a more complex level of awareness and therefore is likely to keep her form the other is in a latent stage of awareness so her form is almost impossible for us human to identify once she change but again according to my beliefs even a human consciousness due to her bad karma can turn into something less evolved such as matter, plant or animal.


3) You say..........Also, if you want to claim that the soul is a physical thing made of actual energy, then that means it can be observed and measured. So...show us where this soul energy is and accept your Nobel Peace Prize..........

Once again you pop up with remarks that I never claimed.

Who ever said that the soul is something physical?
Not me BL.
I instead said that energy and consciousness are but the two sides of the same sheet so one can not exist without the other.

And who said that energy can be observed?
To do that you must be a very very advanced human being very similar to God.
Normal people can not observe energy.
They however can measure energy with some instruments.
Most people who had a real NDE could do that once outside their bodies but most people can not.

Uh, no. You're the one who's demonstrated multiple times a fundamental lack of understanding of how evolution works. And nowhere in this word salad did you address any of my questions. Energy can be observed. Energy takes many forms, depending on how deep you go. Protons, quarks, waves, all these things are types of energy, and can be observed. Heck, even the dark matter and dark energy can be observed to some extent, despite being invisible, tasteless, etc. So again...where is this soul energy you keep asserting must exist? And if this soul energy does exist, what makes it unique in the universe for having no half-life, no expiration date if you will? Even if I granted that this soul energy exists, why should I believe that it would forever remain soul energy?

As for your lesson in evolution, here is how consciousness works. Animals didn't evolve a bigger quantity of invisible soul energy to become more aware. They evolved bigger and more efficient brains. Ever heard of the "reptilian brain?" There's a reason we call it that. Reptile brains basically contain the bare essentials for survival. Mammals, however, have additional structures on top of the reptilian brain, which grant us several advantages such as the ability for introspection, or to develop emotional attachments. In other words, what you're attributing to some invisible energy that somehow survives death, is explained by brain structures.

Your ignorance for how the brain works is not justification for making shit up. If I could travel back in time and grab an ancient Roman and show them my TV, how do you think they would explain it? Most likely, they would resort to the supernatural to explain the television. You are like that hypothetical ancient Roman.

[trdsf]

Your ignorance for how the brain works is not justification for making shit up. If I could travel back in time and grab an ancient Roman and show them my TV, how do you think they would explain it? Most likely, they would resort to the supernatural to explain the television. You are like that hypothetical ancient Roman.

Except, of course, that there's a chance the ancient Roman could understand a rational explanation.

[Blackleaf]

Except, of course, that there's a chance the ancient Roman could understand a rational explanation.

Possibly? I expect it'd be hard to explain the idea of a million tiny mirrors creating an image based on a signal that transfers wirelessly from a station playing a recording that was captured with a device called a camera that collects light in its lens. Reminds me of a book I read in college once about a researcher who lived among a tribe living in the jungle. All those people knew was the jungle. When one of the tribesmen traveled with the researcher to the mountains, he asked, "What is that white stuff?" The researcher replied, "It's snow." "What's snow?" "It's frozen water." The tribesman just gave this suspicious look and said, "You're a liar."

[trdsf]

Possibly? I expect it'd be hard to explain the idea of a million tiny mirrors creating an image based on a signal that transfers wirelessly from a station playing a recording that was captured with a device called a camera that collects light in its lens. Reminds me of a book I read in college once about a researcher who lived among a tribe living in the jungle. All those people knew was the jungle. When one of the tribesmen traveled with the researcher to the mountains, he asked, "What is that white stuff?" The researcher replied, "It's snow." "What's snow?" "It's frozen water." The tribesman just gave this suspicious look and said, "You're a liar."

I never said it was a large chance... ;)

[Unbeliever]

In the multiverse, anything with a non-zero chance of happening must happen.

[Baruch]

Except, of course, that there's a chance the ancient Roman could understand a rational explanation.

And then promptly conquer and enslave you ;-(

[Baruch]

In the multiverse, anything with a non-zero chance of happening must happen.

If you like your multiverse, you can keep your multiverse - Bizzaro Obama

[Arik]

But what about those of us, like me, who aren't very smart?

People before to become smart are non smart (deep philosophy lol)

Everybody go through that stage UB so if I am in you I wouldn't really worry that much.
The important thing however is to wake up and grow up once you understand that you are not smart.

Simple.

[Arik]

Uh, no. You're the one who's demonstrated multiple times a fundamental lack of understanding of how evolution works. And nowhere in this word salad did you address any of my questions. Energy can be observed. Energy takes many forms, depending on how deep you go. Protons, quarks, waves, all these things are types of energy, and can be observed. Heck, even the dark matter and dark energy can be observed to some extent, despite being invisible, tasteless, etc. So again...where is this soul energy you keep asserting must exist? And if this soul energy does exist, what makes it unique in the universe for having no half-life, no expiration date if you will? Even if I granted that this soul energy exists, why should I believe that it would forever remain soul energy?

As for your lesson in evolution, here is how consciousness works. Animals didn't evolve a bigger quantity of invisible soul energy to become more aware. They evolved bigger and more efficient brains. Ever heard of the "reptilian brain?" There's a reason we call it that. Reptile brains basically contain the bare essentials for survival. Mammals, however, have additional structures on top of the reptilian brain, which grant us several advantages such as the ability for introspection, or to develop emotional attachments. In other words, what you're attributing to some invisible energy that somehow survives death, is explained by brain structures.

Your ignorance for how the brain works is not justification for making shit up. If I could travel back in time and grab an ancient Roman and show them my TV, how do you think they would explain it? Most likely, they would resort to the supernatural to explain the television. You are like that hypothetical ancient Roman.

Well, well, well BL.

If you insist that energy can be observed than why not.

A stone is made of energy, a plant too and animals and humans are also made of energy along with everything that exist including the universe and the elements that made it so in a way we can see energy but that is not what we are talking about BL.

Evolution turn rudimental forms of energy into more evolved form of energy and as this happen then this new form of energy become more and more subtle and difficult for human to perceive and understand and it is here that I am talking about.

In the past the saints were represented in paintings with an aura on the head around the pineal gland.
The meaning was that his-her consciousness was so evolved that the aura become resplendent.
You wouldn't be able to perceived whether a person aura is positive or negative or see the energy around it.

In fact you wouldn't even know what the aura is or as the evolution works in individuals so I don't really understand what you trying to say.

[Baruch]

Being a genius is hard ... being humble is even harder ;-)

[Blackleaf]

Well, well, well BL.

If you insist that energy can be observed than why not.

A stone is made of energy, a plant too and animals and humans are also made of energy along with everything that exist including the universe and the elements that made it so in a way we can see energy but that is not what we are talking about BL.

Evolution turn rudimental forms of energy into more evolved form of energy and as this happen then this new form of energy become more and more subtle and difficult for human to perceive and understand and it is here that I am talking about.

In the past the saints were represented in paintings with an aura on the head around the pineal gland.
The meaning was that his-her consciousness was so evolved that the aura become resplendent.
You wouldn't be able to perceived whether a person aura is positive or negative or see the energy around it.

In fact you wouldn't even know what the aura is or as the evolution works in individuals so I don't really understand what you trying to say.

The fuck are you talking about? The "saints" were given a halo around their heads because a story about Moses had the character come down the mountain with some of God's light radiating off of his face, as if being around God for an extended amount of time was contagious. They had to hide Moses' face because they couldn't look directly at him.

Nowhere in the Bible is the pineal gland mentioned. You're making shit up. The idea of the pineal gland being the intermediary between the body and the soul was a cop out a philosopher named Descartes came up with. He didn't know what the function of the pineal gland was, and he didn't understand how the "soul" worked, so he claimed that the pineal gland was the "principal seat of the soul and the place in which all our thoughts are formed." Wrong! We understand now that the pineal gland governs sleep patterns. The idea that that tiny little structure of the brain is wholly responsible for 100% of our thoughts is laughable. And you're referencing him? Just goes to show how ignorant you are, I guess.

[Baruch]

Americans only know America, nothing outside, and sometimes nothing outside of New Jersey ;-)