Hi

[Baruch]

Good to know.

A much larger forum, atheistforums.org sometimes sends their riff-raff here.  But we put quality over quantity ;-)

[Baruch]

Democrat-Republican. Baruch doesn't think there's a difference between the two.

My right leg and my left leg aren't the same, but they connect at the groin, where all the interesting stuff happens.

[Arik]

[quote author=Arik link=topic=13210.msg1245797#msg1245797 date=1549979427



If I go in a yoga forum almost everybody would agree with me so what's the point?
It is in a forum like this in which most people don't agree with me that I can find it very interesting because I have to exercise and train my mind in order to support my beliefs against a strong opposition.

It is this clash that help me to learn how I should put my argument forward in a better way.

No clash = no learning.

From what I've read it is hard for me to think you have a brain.  As for learning you demonstrate nothing that would suggest you are capable of doing that--learn.  For your supposed love of being 'conscious' you seem to be so only in one very narrow band of belief.  Beyond that, you seem to be totally oblivious to anything.

Wrong again Mike.

To me it is all a question of priorities.
To you my priorities are not priorities so you come to the conclusion that I waste my time.

We got different beliefs.
You probably think that once you die is all over so to you must be important physical-material things.
To me these things although necessary are not very very important.

To me the life is eternal so it is important to build the future of my consciousness.
This doesn't mean that I neglect physical and material things.
Yoga doesn't neglect life on earth that is why my spiritual teacher gave a practical system of running the economy and the society once the capitalist system collapse and that shouldn't be very far away now.

[Mike Cl]

Wrong again Mike.

To me it is all a question of priorities.
To you my priorities are not priorities so you come to the conclusion that I waste my time.

We got different beliefs.
You probably think that once you die is all over so to you must be important physical-material things.
To me these things although necessary are not very very important.

To me the life is eternal so it is important to build the future of my consciousness.
This doesn't mean that I neglect physical and material things.
Yoga doesn't neglect life on earth that is why my spiritual teacher gave a practical system of running the economy and the society once the capitalist system collapse and that shouldn't be very far away now.

Doesn't matter what you believe or what I believe, either.  What matters is what 'is'.  Of course you don't neglect physical or material things--to do so would lead to death.  I don't put down yoga at all; just as I don't put down martial arts training.  It is a good form of discipline and is helpful in all phases of life.  I don't worry about what happens after I die; I will die and that is inescapable no matter how many fictions I spin about it.  And your consciousness does not carry over from your death--that belief (as all beliefs are) is a fiction, but one designed to make you feel better.  If that works for you, go for it.  I also agree with your spiritual teacher (spiritual leader=a good gig if you can get it) that what in Merika is called the capitalist system is due for a makeover soon--and it can't happen soon enough.  It seems if you could get rid of your wishful believing that we would see the world in much the same way.

[Arik]

Democrat-Republican. Baruch doesn't think there's a difference between the two.

They both follow the capitalist system so the differences are minimum.

They disagree on the wall on the guns laws and few other things but that's all.
All in all they follow the same decrepit system which has no future.

[Arik]

Doesn't matter what you believe or what I believe, either.  What matters is what 'is'.  Of course you don't neglect physical or material things--to do so would lead to death.  I don't put down yoga at all; just as I don't put down martial arts training.  It is a good form of discipline and is helpful in all phases of life.  I don't worry about what happens after I die; I will die and that is inescapable no matter how many fictions I spin about it.  And your consciousness does not carry over from your death--that belief (as all beliefs are) is a fiction, but one designed to make you feel better.  If that works for you, go for it.  I also agree with your spiritual teacher (spiritual leader=a good gig if you can get it) that what in Merika is called the capitalist system is due for a makeover soon--and it can't happen soon enough.  It seems if you could get rid of your wishful believing that we would see the world in much the same way.

You ..........don't worry about what happens after you die...........I instead do worry.

To think that the consciousness that we got happen in a mysterious way and one day will vanish is a demented idea.
Life and science tell us that we build what we got and nothing happen by chance but that is your life Mike so do what make sense to you.

[Blackleaf]

You ..........don't worry about what happens after you die...........I instead do worry.

To think that the consciousness that we got happen in a mysterious way and one day will vanish is a demented idea.
Life and science tell us that we build what we got and nothing happen by chance but that is your life Mike so do what make sense to you.

You really think that an eternal existence wouldn't be torture, no matter what it's like? Imagine having lived for so long that you've done everything. You've met everyone, you've done all you could ever hope to accomplish, and nothing surprises you any more. You have no more goals, nothing to strive for, you'd be doomed to an eternal existence of boredom.

Reincarnation would be a better option, since you'd essentially be getting a mind wipe between each lifetime, but even that wouldn't be eternal. Our universe is headed towards a state of heat death. One day, there will be no more light in the sky. Eventually, even the blackholes will die, and the universe will have effectively expanded so much that it will be functionally empty. What happens to your consciousness then?

[Unbeliever]

And your consciousness does not carry over from your death--that belief (as all beliefs are) is a fiction, but one designed to make you feel better.

More likely designed to make money for the yoga teacher. I wonder how much Arik pays for the yoga lessons.

[Mike Cl]

You ..........don't worry about what happens after you die...........I instead do worry.

To think that the consciousness that we got happen in a mysterious way and one day will vanish is a demented idea.
Life and science tell us that we build what we got and nothing happen by chance but that is your life Mike so do what make sense to you.

No, I don't worry about what happens when I die.  I have a pretty good idea what does happen, which is to simply rot away--star dust to star dust.  Humans have consciousness not from magical or mysterious ways, but from evolution.  I don't know all the steps that that would take; but for me 'I don't know' does not = god must have done it.  One day humans will have a very good idea of exactly how our consciousness came about and that answer will be supplied by science and not magic or fictional stories or creatures.

[Unbeliever]

From stardust thou art, unto stardust shalt thou return.

[trdsf]

Reincarnation would be a better option, since you'd essentially be getting a mind wipe between each lifetime, but even that wouldn't be eternal. Our universe is headed towards a state of heat death. One day, there will be no more light in the sky. Eventually, even the blackholes will die, and the universe will have effectively expanded so much that it will be functionally empty. What happens to your consciousness then?

Can you call it reincarnation if you have no way to access a past life?  I don't see any difference between reincarnation with a mind wipe, and two completely different beings.

I think you're referring to the Big Freeze, which is not quite the same as heat death because it's not a thin, homogeneous cloud of photons at the same temperature, it's just space and stray matter riding the eternal expansion forever into the darkness, cooling ever closer to absolute zero.

The other alternative fate is the Big Rip, should the acceleration become fast enough to not only separate galaxy clusters, but galaxies within clusters, then separate the galaxies themselves, ultimately expanding fast enough to tear all matter apart and finally the fabric of spacetime itself.

I'm not entirely sure whether the heat death of the universe remains possible under accelerating expansion.  I'll have to pester an astronomer over that.  :)

[Unbeliever]

I don't know what "the fabric of spacetime itself" is, but I'm curious whether the expansion could accelerate enough, eventually, to rip apart the virtual particles, like what happens to them at the event horizon of black holes, such that they'd then become actual, real particles.

[Baruch]

More likely designed to make money for the yoga teacher. I wonder how much Arik pays for the yoga lessons.

If he doesn't pay up, maybe the teacher ties him in knots?

A copy of the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali (the scripture in question) can cost less than $20.  That might be a lot to a poor person in India.

[Unbeliever]

That might be a lot to a poor person anywhere.

[Baruch]

From stardust thou art, unto stardust shalt thou return.

That is a song?  Sung by Nat King Cole?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjU6ZjrQulc