Hi

[aitm]

I gotta admit some of todays youts

How about that? I said "youts" and god gave me a rerun of "My Cousin Vinny"....god sure is funny how he shows us his omnipotence eh? Instead of saving the world, he gives me "My Cousin Vinny".....

[Minimalist]

Would I even consider whatever "yoga" has to say?

[Arik]

Oh...so hippies of the past knew plants had consciousness? Well why didn't we ask them about everything then? Surely they must have had a "higher" consciousness.   *Yawns*

I gotta admit some of todays youts sure can staple their asses to crazy ass shit based on crazier ass shit.

Oh, well it look like you didn't do much search in the net about plants having awareness-consciousness.
Is that the case AITM?

[Arik]

That is Hatha Yoga.  Yoga in India is an entire religion underlying Hinduism and Buddhism.  Yes, Indians were doing psychology over 3000 years ago.  Of course not using the most up to date techniques ... it was all introspection and teacher-pupil insight.

The West is crap.  Nuke it.  Science and Math are White privilege!  Read the Yoga Sutras (aphorisms) by Patanjali in the original Sanskrit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali

If you prefer to find the meaning of your life, by controlled experiments of white mice navigating a maze, by all means do so.

According to me Yoga in India or any other place is not religion although has got something in common with Hinduism and Buddhism such as believing in God, in karma and in the immortality of the soul-consciousness.
Both Yoga and those religions rely on the teaching of Shiva and Krishna but these teachings are not follow in their entirety by Hinduism and Buddhism.
Hinduism created a myriad of Gods, it created the evil caste system the dowry system and crazy beliefs such as the  holy cows and so on beside strict vegetarianism and meditation is now only practiced by few.
Also Buddhism has lost the original direction and very few follow the original teachings. 

[Arik]

Yes science (people using the scientific method--'science' is not a magical word) keeps on discovering new things.  Scientists are not afraid of saying 'We don't know", and then keep trying to know.  Religious and theists have yet to prove anything.  They must rely on faith and belief, for they cannot prove any of those beliefs.  They have yet to demonstrate in any way anything supernatural.   We can only rely on what it is we know and not on what we speculate we will know later on.

Not at all Mike.
You can not say that all theists rely on faith and belief.
Many do but not all of them.
I rely on evidence instead.
When my yoga  teacher did showed me how to practice the meditation he said..........if you follow my teachings you will clean your glands that control body-mind and your very soul-consciousness.........in this way you will find peace of mind and bliss so your unit consciousness at the proper time will merge into the cosmic consciousness.
After practicing these teaching seriously for sometime I did find that what the teacher said was real so this is evidence not faith or belief.
If his teaching would have not lead to any result I would have stop practicing after some time but these teachings really works.

[Arik]

I must differ from your idealism.

Any chance you can tell me where you do not agree or differ?
Thanks.

[Arik]

"According to yoga"? Why should I even consider whatever "yoga" has to say? Yoga may well be good for physical health and such, but how does yoga know anything about consciousness? Has yoga performed repeatable experiments and devised a theory of consciousness? Has yoga got anything other than argument by assertion? Who is yoga, and why is yoga any sort of authority on consciousness?

Yoga follow the same logic and system that you would follow when you try to engage in a love relationship.
Once the thing works you feel good within.
You may not know where the hormones that trigger that nice feeling are located within you but you know that something within make you feel great.
Yoga being engaged in spiritual love for ages and ages learn how the system works and where the main glands that release these hormones are located.
Apparently the first yoga teacher was Shiva which according many lived 7000 years ago.
This is all I can tell you whether you believe it or not.

[Arik]

The pineal gland is thought by some proponents of duelism to be the link between the brain and the soul. It's complete BS, of course. It doesn't even solve the problem it seeks to fix. How does an immaterial soul interact with a physical brain? With a physical gland... Of course!

Suppose you enter you car to drive somewhere.
You are not made of metal as the car.
In the same way when your consciousness enter the body for a lifetime YOU your consciousness are not your body but keep a relationship with the body as you would keep a relationship when you enter your car with the car.
This is my belief.

[Hydra009]

Of course to understand why species with or without backbones may or may not feel God is all about evolution.
Evolution of the consciousness so if you are evolved to a certain degree you need a body able to store a certain amount of consciousness and here a spinal cord is needed.

That's...not how science works, to put it mildly.

Plants are aware yet they don't have a backbone because their awareness is very very small.
Animals are a step higher and human beings even higher so the higher you are in the evolution process and the more complex the spinal cord and glands you need to have.

This is basically a rehash of the great chain of being (a medieval idea), which is pseudoscience.



Evolution does not have levels.  Plants, insects, birds, and humans have all undergone changes to adapt to changing environments.  Every species that is alive managed that in some form or another.  Complexity =/= "evolvedness"

[Hydra009]

Suppose you enter you car to drive somewhere.
You are not made of metal as the car.
In the same way when your consciousness enter the body for a lifetime YOU your consciousness are not your body but keep a relationship with the body as you would keep a relationship when you enter your car with the car.
This is my belief.

Ghost in the shell.  Proof by assertion fallacy.  Yawn.

[Baruch]

Any chance you can tell me where you do not agree or differ?
Thanks.

You - consciousness is everything
Me - consciousness and unconsciousness are everything (ignoring sub-conscious for the moment)
Idea-lism - the general prioritizing of ideas (aka bits of consciousness) over other aspects of experience

Excuse me if I have stereotyped what you have written so far.

Buddhists are also idealistic, in that the Super-ego is prioritized over the Ego and the Id.

Most atheists = some variety of materialism.  Quantum Mechanics is G-d, Niels Bohr says so, Ommmm.

Saivism ... Lord Shiva is the original meditation guru ... on Mt Kailash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQhzDyVIuPw

PS - Yoga is a system of metaphysical introspection and self discipline (per Patanjali).

Chan/Zen is the Chinese realization of Buddhist Yoga that arose out of Vedic Yoga.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjWZz839T8w

The Zen of drums ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZagsLrNzg3I

[Mike Cl]

Not at all Mike.
You can not say that all theists rely on faith and belief.
Many do but not all of them.
I rely on evidence instead.
When my yoga  teacher did showed me how to practice the meditation he said..........if you follow my teachings you will clean your glands that control body-mind and your very soul-consciousness.........in this way you will find peace of mind and bliss so your unit consciousness at the proper time will merge into the cosmic consciousness.
After practicing these teaching seriously for sometime I did find that what the teacher said was real so this is evidence not faith or belief.
If his teaching would have not lead to any result I would have stop practicing after some time but these teachings really works.

Glad things worked for you.  But that is not evidence of anything other than it worked for you.  That is subjective.  It is not evidence you can use to 'prove' anything to me.  Or anybody else.  It is evidence that is proof to you--and that's it.  This is not scientific proof--it is subjective proof.  All theists and religious people from the very beginning of time have used that type of 'proof' and not any scientific proof of any kind.  Can you give me any scientific proof that your god exists or ever did?

[Unbeliever]

I don't think Arik understands the concept of proof.

[the_antithesis]

After practicing these teaching seriously for sometime I did find that what the teacher said was real so this is evidence not faith or belief.

Anecdotes are not evidence.

[Baruch]

Anecdotes are not evidence.

Neither is your personal experience (or mine).  All personal info (as we misremember it) is invalid.  You are not a human, not alive, not male etc ... that is just you POV, which is subjective.  2+2=4 is objective ... the prophet, Pythagoras, says so.

OTOH ... when two or more drunk monkeys agree on something, that is objectionable, not objective.  Group think isn't evidence.