Author Topic: Celestial North Korea revisited  (Read 228 times)

Celestial North Korea revisited
« on: December 18, 2018, 03:43:55 PM »
Christopher Hitchens called religion a celestial North Korea--slavery to a totalitarian, under constant surveillance for thought crime. It is an argument I've often heard repeated in an attempt to convince the religious and It is an argument that I've often found convincing. Naturally we look at North Korea and are repulsed by the brutality and assure ourselves that we--everyone--would obviously choose freedom. But isn't that ignoring half the proposition?

Let's take "Celestial North Korea" seriously for a moment. Imagine North Korea--the same repressive regime, gulags, torture, ect. But all 3 Kims are still alive (Father, Son and Holy, eh, something), have magical powers and use them to reward their followers. You have to kowtow to the glories of the Kims, but in exchange no one gets hungry or sick or dies. Not just "Mussolini made the trains run on time" but paradise in exchange for worshiping mini-Hitler. Every time someone leaves a nursing home after visiting Alzheimer ravaged Mom a missionary comes up and says "Kim can make your mother whole again, if you just praise him". Every time a child dies of cancer a missionary promises that Kim can resurrect the child to an eternity of bliss, if only you lick Kim's boots. And Kim actually does preform those miracles.

Wouldn't people accept Kim's offer? If I were desperate enough--facing the death of a loved one--wouldn't I be powerfully tempted?
Further, and most disturbingly, wouldn't people actually come to love North Korea and the Kims? If their child were brought back to life, their parent restored, their every need fulfilled wouldn't they come to think that the Kims deserved the love and praise they demanded? Wouldn't they think that anyone who refused would deserve the horrible punishments meted out? How often have you heard a Christian say something along the lines of "god is entitled to your worship because he gave you life and sustains you"?

Taken seriously, I'm afraid that Celestial North Korea is not an attack on religion but simply an explanation for it.
"Observe that noses were made to wear spectacles; and so we have spectacles. Legs were visibly instituted to be breeched, and we have breeches" VoltaireοΏ½s Candide

Re: Celestial North Korea revisited
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2018, 04:09:07 PM »
But "Kim" does none of those things, so it's all merely false hope. It's lies designed to pull in desperate, gullible people and chain them to the walls of a dungeon, and make them give the leaders of the "Kim" religion all their worldly goods.
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If something cannot logically exist due to incompatible properties, then it does not exist. The God of the Bible has such incompatible properties, and so it does not exist.    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Loginο»Ώ

Offline Baruch

Re: Celestial North Korea revisited
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2018, 07:23:26 PM »
The N Koreans have their own secular religion, that barely resembles Marxism ...

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Certainly monarchial leadership isn't Marxist.
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Celestial North Korea revisited
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2018, 09:29:56 AM »
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You lost it at "but in exchange no one gets hungry or sick or dies. "  They do.  All 3 in fact.  Try again...

And I'll add that we went through this crap with Hitler and Stalin and Mao (sort of) in WWII.  What kind of bridges are you trying to sell?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 09:32:35 AM by Cavebear »
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!


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