Author Topic: This Should Be Stickied  (Read 1832 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2018, 01:41:55 PM »
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No like John Gotti, Vito Genovese and Joe Profaci mafia.  You don't build anything in New York or run a casino in Atlantic City without the mob owning a piece of you.

Of course.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2018, 01:42:19 PM »
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You're de-railing the thread, Baruch.

Go make a post in the "political" section if you want to ramble incoherently about this

Thanks.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline SGOS

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2018, 02:03:58 PM »
Excellent read.

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2018, 05:52:34 PM »
The word "God" is not well defined. With such a vague term people can believe many different things and still say they believe in God.

Quote from: Charles Bradlaugh
The atheist does not say," There is no God", but he says, "I know not what you mean by God"; the word God is to me a sound conveying no clear or distinct affirmation.
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"Ideas have consequences, and totally erroneous ideas are likely to have destructive consequences."
Steve Allen

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2018, 06:56:44 PM »
Quote
β€œThe agnostic does not simply say, "l do not know." He goes another step, and he says, with great emphasis, that you do not know. He insists that you are trading on the ignorance of others, and on the fear of others. He is not satisfied with saying that you do not know, -- he demonstrates that you do not know, and he drives you from the field of fact -- he drives you from the realm of reason -- he drives you from the light, into the darkness of conjecture -- into the world of dreams and shadows, and he compels you to say, at last, that your faith has no foundation in fact.”
― Robert G. Ingersoll
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Offline Baruch

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2018, 07:06:18 PM »
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If one is trading on the fear and ignorance of others, then one is an American businessman, politician or both.  This applies to more than just religion.

Did Ingersoll make any money off his writing?  If so, then he is guilty of Capitalism!  The Sans-Cullottes should be around with the trundle shortly.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2018, 09:02:40 PM »
IIRC Ingersoll was more of an orator.  He gave speeches to admiring crowds.  I imagine he was paid to do so.

I think later on his speeches were collected by editors.
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2019, 02:51:16 PM »
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Or even better shoved up the ass of every theist who comes down the pike.

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From the article:

"Not all religious and spiritual beliefs make testable claims"

Wow, that's and understatement.

In my observation and experience, no theistic religion makes testable foundational claims. And non-theistic religions are pretty rife with untestable claims too.

Offline Sal1981

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2019, 06:06:08 PM »
From the article:
Quote from: 'GRETA CHRISTINA'
1: The consistent replacement of supernatural explanations of the world with natural ones.

2: The inconsistency of world religions.

3: The weakness of religious arguments, explanations, and apologetics.

4: The increasing diminishment of God.

5: The fact that religion runs in families.

6: The physical causes of everything we think of as the soul.

7: The complete failure of any sort of supernatural phenomenon to stand up to rigorous testing.

8: The slipperiness of religious and spiritual beliefs.

9: The failure of religion to improve or clarify over time.

10: The complete lack of solid evidence for God’s existence.
1. Basically god of the gaps.

2. All are different, and even divide into subgroups (sects), which tells me enough. We don't have Christian physics or Islamic mathematics, they're universally true regardless of where they're practiced and by anyone. It's just physics and mathematics, not so for world religions.

3. I don't think I've ever seen an argument for god that also didn't ignore physical reality in favor of some unbounded ontology; the 3 omni- attributes spring to mind. Why does god even have to have the omni attributes anyway? Can't it just be incapable of stopping evil or somesuch? Would make more sense than "works in mysterious ways" bullshit excuse.

4. I'm sure our patternicity in seeing the virgin Mary on a piece of toast is enough evidence for an affirming Catholic *facepalm*. Anyways, it just shows that if not false, it's weakening god the more we know and can substantiate.

5. If your faith is an accident of geography, doesn't that make you think twice?

6. Wasn't there a bogus experiment that showed the soul to weigh 23 grams? No, it's in our brains.

7. I think that even if, somehow, a supernatural phenomena was showed to be proveable, it would essentially just be seen as how nature is put together; so I don't get this one.

8. So annoying when someone does the old switcheroo and moves the goalpost. It should be apparent to an honest person that if you have to change your argument without realizing what you're doing, that your starting argument is flimsy, at best.

9. I think this is the strongest, IMO. The scientific method is self-correcting, while religion is, and has remained static over the eons. There's no patch, no correction made. Slavery is still mentioned and condoned in the Bible. Human sacrifice is still there. I think that is the death knell of any religion, one that doesn't change/revise with better understanding that comes along.

10. 2nd best argument in my book. I don't have to prove anything, it is up to the claimant to prove something exists or not. I won't be trying to find square circles though.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2019, 10:53:08 AM »
Religions do change over time, but they're typically at least a few generations behind everyone else due to their stubbornness to change. When slavery was abolished, there were Christians on both sides of the fence, but now they act like they always knew that slavery was wrong. Of course, we can look back at their source material without bias and see that their reinterpretation of the clearly pro-slavery Bible is full of shit, but they never admit to being wrong. So they do improve, slowly, and they pretend to clarify their interpretations when necessary. If only they could see the truth that the reason such changes are necessary is that their religion clashes with their secular humanitarian sensibilities, and just dump religion altogether.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Baruch

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2019, 11:04:51 AM »
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Religions do change over time, but they're typically at least a few generations behind everyone else due to their stubbornness to change. When slavery was abolished, there were Christians on both sides of the fence, but now they act like they always knew that slavery was wrong. Of course, we can look back at their source material without bias and see that their reinterpretation of the clearly pro-slavery Bible is full of shit, but they never admit to being wrong. So they do improve, slowly, and they pretend to clarify their interpretations when necessary. If only they could see the truth that the reason such changes are necessary is that their religion clashes with their secular humanitarian sensibilities, and just dump religion altogether.

Typical progressive view ;-)  Must get to utopia, right now!
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Munch

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2019, 03:30:35 PM »
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Typical progressive view ;-)  Must get to utopia, right now!

well, there never will be a utopia, because humankind is just to divisive with itself in the broader scheme of things. Common interests make better groups, but humanity is just not that far advanced to either let go without certain vices or be fully open to all others ideas without criticism, which to me is better as a safety measure.

Best method to living right is to be your own boss, and if you have to follow orders, do so with disdain.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 03:32:35 PM by Munch »

Offline Baruch

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2019, 07:12:54 PM »
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well, there never will be a utopia, because humankind is just to divisive with itself in the broader scheme of things. Common interests make better groups, but humanity is just not that far advanced to either let go without certain vices or be fully open to all others ideas without criticism, which to me is better as a safety measure.

Best method to living right is to be your own boss, and if you have to follow orders, do so with disdain.

But trying to achieve a utopia (as a con artist) one can, as a theist or atheist, set up a lot of death squads and death camps.  The ends do justify the means, as long as your intention is good, regardless if your result is good or not.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2019, 04:02:47 AM »
A lot of theists would say that they don't care about religions to that list. Because most of the people who define themselves as theists only, often do not believe in religions.
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while Δ± was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Offline Baruch

Re: This Should Be Stickied
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2019, 07:09:40 AM »
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A lot of theists would say that they don't care about religions to that list. Because most of the people who define themselves as theists only, often do not believe in religions.

That is why Heaven is put off, until after death.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

 

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