So It Seems That Brexit Has Become a Category 5 Shitstorm

Started by Minimalist, December 13, 2018, 07:21:51 PM

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Baruch

Correct.  People claim they can predict the economic, climatic or political future, and we don't treat them as the carnival frauds they in fact are.

Good for whom?  Maybe in 10 years, looking back, we will know if it was good for GB or good for Germany.
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Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
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Don't do that.

Munch

Quote from: Baruch on February 02, 2020, 11:14:34 AM
Correct.  People claim they can predict the economic, climatic or political future, and we don't treat them as the carnival frauds they in fact are.

Good for whom?  Maybe in 10 years, looking back, we will know if it was good for GB or good for Germany.

lets be honest, people saying it will be bad are basing it on emotional attachment and belief more then what actually might happen. People get offended that a country wants to be independent like Britain from the EU, but same people get offended that scotland isn't allowed to go independent themselves despite a democratically elected choice to remain happened.   
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

trdsf

The offensive part is not whether Scotland voted (or votes in the future) to remain. The offensive part is that they have to get permission to hold a vote, and that there's this attitude the last one counts now and forever when there has been a fundamental change in the UK's relationship with Europe that Scotland clearly disagreed with in the referendum.

If 'one and done' is the metric, then the referendum in the 70s settled the question and there should never have been the two since. And if multiple tries are permissible on the UK's membership in Europe, then multiple tries are okay on Scotland's membership in the UK.  There's just no consistent justification to deny a second independence referendum.

I'm less interested in Scotland actually voting to leave the Union than I am in them just having the right to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Munch

Quote from: trdsf on February 02, 2020, 01:52:44 PM

I'm less interested in Scotland actually voting to leave the Union than I am in them just having the right to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.

I'm less interested in Endland actually voting to leave the EU than I am in them just having the right to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.

See, it works both ways.
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Baruch

Quote from: trdsf on February 02, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
The offensive part is not whether Scotland voted (or votes in the future) to remain. The offensive part is that they have to get permission to hold a vote, and that there's this attitude the last one counts now and forever when there has been a fundamental change in the UK's relationship with Europe that Scotland clearly disagreed with in the referendum.

If 'one and done' is the metric, then the referendum in the 70s settled the question and there should never have been the two since. And if multiple tries are permissible on the UK's membership in Europe, then multiple tries are okay on Scotland's membership in the UK.  There's just no consistent justification to deny a second independence referendum.

I'm less interested in Scotland actually voting to leave the Union than I am in them just having the right to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.

Let us go back to the boundaries of the Roman Empire, to correct borders?  Scotland is bankrupt in early 18h century and now, bunch of angry drunks.  Being romantic about Outlander won't change that.  Socialism means that Scotland will never economically recover, in the EU it would be another vacation location for Germans, like Greece.

If you support independence, do you support Catalonia in Spain and Brittany in France?  I would be happy to see Spain and France reduced to city states.  Not to mention breaking up Italy into multiple pieces.  But that can't happen in a Federal EU ... aww.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

trdsf

Quote from: Munch on February 02, 2020, 02:58:21 PM
I'm less interested in Endland actually voting to leave the EU than I am in them just having the right to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.

See, it works both ways.
I never said it didn't.  In fact, I explicitly recognized that the election in December is a ratification of the 2016 vote.  I still think it was a mistake, but at least the election wasn't run on the pixie shit and unicorn farts Leave spread in 2016.  Did you have a point, or are you just wasting electricity?
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Munch

Quote from: trdsf on February 02, 2020, 09:38:19 PM
I never said it didn't.  In fact, I explicitly recognized that the election in December is a ratification of the 2016 vote.  I still think it was a mistake, but at least the election wasn't run on the pixie shit and unicorn farts Leave spread in 2016.  Did you have a point, or are you just wasting electricity?

okay, well chew on this one then. If scotland did go for a second referendum, and that had the same result, would it be justified to have another, and another, and another, until getting the result you wanted? Because thats not democracy, thats just mockery.
Now if they stand by their peoples choice and then wait 10 or so years for another one, at least that wouldn't seen childish. 
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

trdsf

Quote from: Munch on February 02, 2020, 10:27:31 PM
okay, well chew on this one then. If scotland did go for a second referendum, and that had the same result, would it be justified to have another, and another, and another, until getting the result you wanted? Because thats not democracy, thats just mockery.
Now if they stand by their peoples choice and then wait 10 or so years for another one, at least that wouldn't seen childish.
You mean like the EU referendum that confirmed the UK's membership by a roaring margin, until a whisper-thin majority voted to leave in 2016?

You're ignoring the reality that the facts on the ground have changed radically since the last independence referendum -- there wouldn't be anywhere near the justification had the UK voted to remain because there wouldn't have been that change.

Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain, and now they're being forced to leave against their wishes.  There is simply no justification to deny them a say on the matter.  If the rest of the UK can convince them to vote to remain in union, there you go.  If not, oh well, you brought that on yourselves.

Generally speaking, I tend to support self-determination.  I believe states have the right to secede from the US as well.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Shiranu

Quote from: Munch on February 02, 2020, 02:58:21 PM
I'm less interested in Endland actually voting to leave the EU than I am in them just having the right to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.

See, it works both ways.

Yeah, but England chose to be part of the EU. Scotland didn't have that choice with the UK.

It really doesn't work both ways when your comparing apples to screwdrivers. It's like saying someone getting a divorce because their spouse beats them and someone getting a divorce because they are tired of the relationship and want to see other people are basically the same thing.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

Quote from: Munch on February 02, 2020, 10:27:31 PM
okay, well chew on this one then. If scotland did go for a second referendum, and that had the same result, would it be justified to have another, and another, and another, until getting the result you wanted? Because thats not democracy, thats just mockery.
Now if they stand by their peoples choice and then wait 10 or so years for another one, at least that wouldn't seen childish.

Are you an EU troll?  That is how the Commission arranges votes ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#1000
Quote from: Shiranu on February 03, 2020, 04:29:30 AM
Yeah, but England chose to be part of the EU. Scotland didn't have that choice with the UK.

It really doesn't work both ways when your comparing apples to screwdrivers. It's like saying someone getting a divorce because their spouse beats them and someone getting a divorce because they are tired of the relationship and want to see other people are basically the same thing.

Some people are anarchists, pretending to be democratic.  What they want is all cops gone, so they can enjoy their drugs of choice.

The question of which territory should belong to who (see Israel) and how far back in time do we need to correct White Male Privilege (but never Brown/Yellow/Red Male Privilege) is a black hole with no escape.  I haven't owned any real estate since 1989 ... since after all, the Government thru Eminent Domain is the real owner, and they stole it from the Natives (who stole it from other Natives).  SJWs and Communists, play the game of Risk Commissar.  Put me in charge of being President Wilson etc at Versailles.

There are Maga Hats who want to secede from Liberals, and make war on them.  Yes, freedom is great until your fist reaches my nose.  Then my trusty Claymore cuts your arm off.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#1001
Barnier wants abject surrender of GB to Brussels, to get a trade treaty.  To prevent GB from competing with the EU (aka socialist protection racket).

Junker added he wants to break up the US, to prevent the US from competing with the EU.

Time for Super-US and Super-UK to put on their super-suits, and destroy EUSR like we destroyed the USSR.  Maybe we should weaponize jihadis ... oh, doing that!

Americans know how to deal with Europeans ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_CFGVPO7SY

Why was the US in WW I? ... Zimmerman telegram.  Last time Germany  conspired to break up the US.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Irexit next?

"Irish Voters REJECT EU Federalist Varadkar" ... oops.  The Leprechauns are restless.

Sinn Fein gains.  Nationalist-Left.  Not pro-EU for the same reason old Labour in UK was anti-EU.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SvZurich

When does Iceland join the EU to fill the power vacuum? They've had legal beer for nearly a decade now. That should qualify them.

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Kimberly (HSBUH) aka Baroness Sylvia endorses the Meadow Party's Bill N' Opus for the 2024 Presidential election! Or a Sanders/Warren ticket.

Jason Harvestdancer

Also, when the EU formed, there was included a process for leaving that nobody thought anyone would actually use.  When the UK formed, nobody imagined a process for leaving.

Still, it would be fun to let Scotland vote and see what happens.
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.<br /><br />No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!