So It Seems That Brexit Has Become a Category 5 Shitstorm

Started by Minimalist, December 13, 2018, 07:21:51 PM

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Unbeliever

Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 03:51:53 AM
You are obsessed with Hillary Clinton.  And for bad reasons.  If she had won in 2016, would the world be in such bad shape as Trump has given us?  Seriously, she would have (politely) told Putin to go fuck himself, ordered serious anti-election-cyberattack measures, stopped Brexit,  steadied the global economy, and not promised that Mexico would pay for a useless wall. 

That's why Putin would never let her occupy the Oval Office, and why Baruch has Hillary derangement syndrome. I Putin his general direction! :-P
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on September 07, 2019, 01:27:54 PM
That's why Putin would never let her occupy the Oval Office, and why Baruch has Hillary derangement syndrome. I Putin his general direction! :-P

Putin derangement syndrom.  I would expect you supported Pol Pot back in the day (sarc).

I am not anti-Russian.  Not anti-anyone.  I consider liberals to be losers, demented, degenerates, druggies.  Been true since "woke" Voltaire and Rousseau.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2019, 01:30:01 PM
Putin derangement syndrom.  I would expect you supported Pol Pot back in the day (sarc).

I smoked pot, not Pol Pot! LOL
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on September 07, 2019, 01:32:48 PM
I smoked pot, not Pol Pot! LOL

TMI if you smoked Pol Pot ;-)

We might not know more about the British comedy until Tuesday.  I could use the respite from the Punch & Judy show.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

drunkenshoe

#739
Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2019, 01:23:10 PM
Yes.  Saw the whole program.  Said his Turkish grandfather was a hero, not a traitor.  Executed by Turkish paras.  Your Ataturk lot killed him.  That and he is also descended from King George II.  The world has always envied the English monarchy.  Kick Turkey out of Nato now.  In fact, the US should completely withdraw from Nato.  I think Erdogan can deal with Syria and Iran just fine.  Part of their traditional concern.

You watched a program about it? It's just funny, the 'not enough British guy' has Turkish roots, lol, who cares? Did they also ask him, what was the English doing down there?

You know he said that for someone, about a vanilla white British guy joining the party? 'He is not British enough.' 

"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp

Baruch

Quote from: drunkenshoe on September 07, 2019, 02:18:19 PM
You watched a program about it? It's just funny, the 'not enough British guy' has Turkish roots, lol, who cares? Did they also ask him, what was the English doing down there?

You know he said that for someone, about a vanilla white British guy joining the party? 'He is not British enough.'

Your Un-Turk came to Britain for a better date.  Because Turkey back they was a disintegrating shit hole.

There needs to be genocide from Ireland to Vladivostok.  Bring on WW III, I am bored waiting for y'all's superiority.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

trdsf

Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 06:46:31 AM
I disagree.  Before the TrumpStorm, the US had some effect.  Some people forget.
The referendum was several months before the US election, when it looked like Hillary had a reasonably safe, but not wide, path to victory.  This one really is all on them -- if the fault is anywhere, it's in whatever body oversees UK elections not calling out the Leave campaign on their lies about the £350 million a week that leaving the EU would free up for the NHS during the campaign.

The scale of Leave's deception is like being told you're going to get a brand new Bentley and a free ten thousand pounds, and as soon as you agree, the story changed to being charged twenty thousand for a beat-up Yugo -- and not having any choice about it.

I think a confirmatory referendum is definitely in the offing now; Boris has arguably had the worst first week as PM in the history of the UK, and looks poised to set the record as the shortest-serving premier at this rate -- he's got to hang on another 75 days (to 21 Nov) to not be, and I'll be surprised if there's not an election (or an internal Tory revolt) by then.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Mr.Obvious

Quote from: trdsf on September 08, 2019, 01:19:41 AM
The referendum was several months before the US election, when it looked like Hillary had a reasonably safe, but not wide, path to victory.  This one really is all on them -- if the fault is anywhere, it's in whatever body oversees UK elections not calling out the Leave campaign on their lies about the £350 million a week that leaving the EU would free up for the NHS during the campaign.

The scale of Leave's deception is like being told you're going to get a brand new Bentley and a free ten thousand pounds, and as soon as you agree, the story changed to being charged twenty thousand for a beat-up Yugo -- and not having any choice about it.

I think a confirmatory referendum is definitely in the offing now; Boris has arguably had the worst first week as PM in the history of the UK, and looks poised to set the record as the shortest-serving premier at this rate -- he's got to hang on another 75 days (to 21 Nov) to not be, and I'll be surprised if there's not an election (or an internal Tory revolt) by then.

I think if brexit goes past 31st of October, which seems likely at this point, a general election might happen. I think the bid for an earlier election was swept aside, right? (things are moving fast now, trying to keep up to speed.)
But I think past Oct 31, the tories will be hesitant to go for a general election, as they'll lose many votes to farage. And labour too will have to up it games and take an actual stance rather than 'brexit later, with a deal, probably, we'll get around to it someday I am sure' if they want to keep votes and members in Parliament.
In short, a general election is, I fear, not going to help matters go forth.
I also don't see how or why they should would hold and justify a second referendum. And even then, I am not certain the results would be different. They could be, people have since changed their minds. It might be done, mind you. But I would not go for one as a politician.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

SGOS

I can't help but think that this could have been avoided with a little honesty and forethought up front.  The events as I recall (as an American who wasn't really watching this thing from the start) were:

People voted to exit the EU. 
When Britain entered the EU, they must have done so to participate in some sort of collective European gain and profited from the concept of a stronger collective power.  Now that things didn't work out to everyone's satisfaction, Britain voted to withdraw, but it seems like they want to retain the gains they made when they joined.  When you join the country club, you get access to the pool and gym.  When you terminate your membership, you don't expect to keep using the pool and the gym.  So:

why not just make a clean break?
or
why not just stay in and collect the benefits of membership?  This sounds like wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

I'm not in a hurry to blame Britain, because it could be that the rest of the EU has been taking advantage of Britain.  I don't even know how the rest of the EU feels.  Do they want Britain in or out of the EU?  Or do they just want the extra power they gain from Britain without giving anything in return?

If Britain wants out because it's that bad, just leave.  No deal.  If it's that good in the Union, don't leave.  Expecting to leave without sacrificing the benefits for joining the Union, doesn't make sense.  Not that politics ever makes sense, of course.

Now if I were in charge, and thank God, I'm not.  I would hold another vote now that people have had a chance to see what leaving the EU entails.  The vote should be leaving the Union without a deal or staying in the Union.  That should be the actual vote since no one is going to get a deal.  It's just In or Out.  Not everyone is going to be satisfied of course, but that's democracy.  The majority wins, even if what they want is bad for everyone.  And come to think of it, why do we assume that democracy is good for everyone.  Clearly, it's not.

No doubt, I'm oversimplifying.  But no doubt, others are overcomplicating.  And somewhere between those two extremes are a whole bunch of people who are just getting tired.

SGOS

I was listening to a British news report on NPR yesterday, and a reporter said that people want to get out, but the politicians don't want out.  He was also daring enough to comment that this is an issue between the people and their leadership, not between parties.  I don't know if that's true.  It's just what a guy in British media reported.

Baruch

NPR is like CNN is like BBC.  Communist.  Not a good source of info.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: SGOS on September 08, 2019, 05:05:18 AM
I was listening to a British news report on NPR yesterday, and a reporter said that people want to get out, but the politicians don't want out.  He was also daring enough to comment that this is an issue between the people and their leadership, not between parties.  I don't know if that's true.  It's just what a guy in British media reported.

The reporter is correct.  There is a constitutional crisis between People power vs Parliament power.  The Parliament defeated Royal authority over centuries from 1642 until 1911.  1910 was the last time the monarch could even suggest policy.  In 1911, the primary of House of Commons was set over House of Lords in addition.  At that time members were actual peers.  Now it is basically a retirement home for ex politicians and other notables.  Recent poll puts 82% of public against Parliament.

So ... a small majority voted in favor of Brexit.  And the government, like Greece, basically is refusing to follow the result.  In Greece they simply set it aside.  In GB, they are less honest ... they claimed they would implement it, but in fact they never had the intention to do that.  The PM May deal basically keeps GB in the EU, in worse shape than simply staying as before (it is punishment to scare Italy, France etc).

As stated before, if GB believes in total superiority of House of Commons not People ... then they should never have any referenda.  And have enough guts to cancel Article 50, to simply remain in the EU.  Both Labor and Tories lied for the past 3 years.  The voters can reward them for that or not.  Usually voters reward liars pretty consistently.  1992 forward, the House of Commons surrendered sovereignty, in perpetuity, to the EU.  In short, GB will become like Florida or any other un-state.

With hindsight, I couldn't support referenda state-wide (as in California) let alone nation-wide.  I am at the point I am not in favor of any voting by regular people.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on September 08, 2019, 06:01:48 AM
NPR is like CNN is like BBC.  Communist.  Not a good source of info.
Kind of like you, huh?!  You are like faux news--the more you listen and watch the more stupid you become.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on September 08, 2019, 12:09:01 PM
Kind of like you, huh?!  You are like faux news--the more you listen and watch the more stupid you become.

The Communists believed Pravda, until Boris Yeltsin arrived.  We will see EOD tomorrow what New Boris has up his sleeve.  53 more days.  I am sure y'all cried liberal tears when the Soviet Union fell apart.  Idealists, stuck inside "it's a small world after all" at Disney World.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on September 08, 2019, 12:56:21 PM
The Communists believed Pravda, until Boris Yeltsin arrived.  We will see EOD tomorrow what New Boris has up his sleeve.  53 more days.  I am sure y'all cried liberal tears when the Soviet Union fell apart.  Idealists, stuck inside "it's a small world after all" at Disney World.
Like I said--like faux news, the more one watches and listens, the more stupid one becomes.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?