So It Seems That Brexit Has Become a Category 5 Shitstorm

Started by Minimalist, December 13, 2018, 07:21:51 PM

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Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2019, 12:19:22 AM
Everytime I think that the US has gone the most totally nuts, Brexit is there to relieve my concerns.

Agreed.  A less personal blood sport.  American blood sport is too close to home.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Minimalist

Quotethose have been winners for the Native Americans too.


And the casinos.... don't forget the casinos.
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Cavebear

Quote from: Minimalist on May 31, 2019, 01:14:07 AM

And the casinos.... don't forget the casinos.

Given some of the names of people involved in Indian Casinos, I begin to question the "purity" of the casino owners...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2019, 01:59:49 AM
Given some of the names of people involved in Indian Casinos, I begin to question the "purity" of the casino owners...


What's a Puritan like you to do?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on May 31, 2019, 10:27:34 AM

What's a Puritan like you to do?

Invest in index funds and grow rich...  Then get out before Trump finishes wrecking the economy.  I smile each day the S&P tumbles as I get 3% while others are pulling out their hair....
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Shiranu

Quote from: Munch on May 30, 2019, 10:12:55 PM


national identity is as important as social identity. Seems funny how to two seem to conflict these days.

I say this fully aware that it’s an outside looking in perspective...

Hasn’t London essentially always been a non-English city? Abstractly, going back to the days of Normans and Vikings (and Romans), but more relevantly the city where so many of the Commonwealth and her colonies immigrated to? Hasn’t there always been an issue of African-English, Indian, Chinese, etc. enclaves in the city “destroying” the indigenous English culture?

Also, national identity is fine... but let’s not pretend like national identity wasn’t the root cause of almost all modern genocide and war in the West and East. It has its place, but it is a place that needs to be heavily watched and kept in check.

"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Cavebear

Quote from: Shiranu on May 31, 2019, 12:27:45 PM
I say this fully aware that it’s an outside looking in perspective...

Hasn’t London essentially always been a non-English city? Abstractly, going back to the days of Normans and Vikings (and Romans), but more relevantly the city where so many of the Commonwealth and her colonies immigrated to? Hasn’t there always been an issue of African-English, Indian, Chinese, etc. enclaves in the city “destroying” the indigenous English culture?

Also, national identity is fine... but let’s not pretend like national identity wasn’t the root cause of almost all modern genocide and war in the West and East. It has its place, but it is a place that needs to be heavily watched and kept in check.

Nothing about London (or about most places in Europe) are what they originally were.  Europe has been awash with immigrations and conquests since the cro-magnons (who invented the filet magnon of course - j/k) first arrived after them were the Picts, the Celts, the Angles and Romans etc.  But as a place, "The Romans founded London about 50 AD. Its name is derived from the Celtic word Londinios, which means the place of the bold one. After they invaded Britain in 43 AD the Romans built a bridge across the Thames. They later decided it was an excellent place to build a port. (Wikipedia)"

So even though the Roman later-comers understood, it was a good place.  But equally an old established place before ports even matterred.

Your suggestion that it matters modernly as a place of immigration and naturalization is true about almost any established city.  The newly-arrived settle into the poor areas of the largest city anywhere because that is where the opportunities exist.  And they move out as fast as they can afford to.  Because of "all those new-comers", LOL!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Minimalist

Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2019, 01:59:49 AM
Given some of the names of people involved in Indian Casinos, I begin to question the "purity" of the casino owners...

There are some Sicilian Indian tribes involved, to be sure.
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Munch

Quote from: Shiranu on May 31, 2019, 12:27:45 PM

Hasn’t London essentially always been a non-English city? Abstractly, going back to the days of Normans and Vikings (and Romans), but more relevantly the city where so many of the Commonwealth and her colonies immigrated to? Hasn’t there always been an issue of African-English, Indian, Chinese, etc. enclaves in the city “destroying” the indigenous English culture?

Its bizarre to make the claim the capital of england is a non-english city. If you said londons always had a mixture of other cultures within it that would make sense. What you said though would apply to any nations capital that has a mixture of other cultures within in has no national identity within said countries nation, like toyko had a bunch of white westerners living there, does it lose its national identity because of that?

Quote
Also, national identity is fine... but let’s not pretend like national identity wasn’t the root cause of almost all modern genocide and war in the West and East. It has its place, but it is a place that needs to be heavily watched and kept in check.

Any identity falls into this spectrum, national, religious, social, political, theres been bloodbaths over these things across human history, so making claim that national identity is the sole cause of all the wars in the world is short sighted. People are more complex then just one part of their identity. Also just as any of these things can lead to conflict, so can they have good purposes, after all it was the brits national identity why we pushed back against the nazis in ww2, to stop that campaign before it reached us. It was also indians national identity that pushed forward to gaining its freedom from British rule.

This 'it needs to be watched' thing really sounds like it comes from someone only interested in globalization, which is an unstructured mess of ideals.   
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2019, 10:42:18 AM
Invest in index funds and grow rich...  Then get out before Trump finishes wrecking the economy.  I smile each day the S&P tumbles as I get 3% while others are pulling out their hair....

Don't kick a man (investor) when he is down (investments underperforming) or he might get up (turn a profit).  The arrogance of the temporarily successful, who end up as a corpse same as a street urchin in Mumbai … always amuses.  Usually particularly if they are kings and queens.

Centralization …

Caligula said, I wish the whole world had one neck, so it would be easier to cut it!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Shiranu

QuoteIts bizarre to make the claim the capital of england is a non-english city.

How so? Up until very (historically) recently, it's ruling class was almost exclusively non-English speaking... French, Germans, but not the actual English people. It has also always been a major enclave of non-English, both culturally and linguistically, peoples from across the Commonwealth. Calling London an "English city", given the fact it's ruling class and it's people have for it's entire history been a multi-cultural mix, to me does a great disservice to the history of the city.

I will admit, I might be wording that too strongly; what I should have said is that London has been an extremely mixed city that very rarely could be considered "English dominant".

Quote...like toyko had a bunch of white westerners living there, does it lose its national identity because of that?

No, because the proportion of foreigners in Tokyo is around 5-7% from what I'm finding. Native-born Japanese are the overwhelming majority and power of the political and social landscape of Tokyo.

Compare that to London... 36.7% of the population is foreign born, and how many of the locally-born Londoners were raised in foreign cultural enclaves vs. being fully integrated into English society?

44.9% of the city is "White British"... so it is, objectively speaking, not an "English" city... or at least, not an English majority city.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Shiranu

QuoteAny identity falls into this spectrum, national, religious, social, political, theres been bloodbaths over these things across human history, so making claim that national identity is the sole cause of all the wars in the world is short sighted.

Well, considering I didn't make that claim... I'm not particularly concerned with how short-sighted it would be.

QuoteThis 'it needs to be watched' thing really sounds like it comes from someone only interested in globalization, which is an unstructured mess of ideals.   


And the idea that nationalism shouldn't be viewed with extreme skepticism and distrust really sounds like it comes from someone who didn't pay a lick of attention in history classes that covered the last 200 years of European history.

I have been pretty consistent on being proud of my cultural identity, which is heavily tied into nationalism, for years here. But you can bemoan globalization all you like, at the end of the day the entire world as we know it... for good or bad... literally only works because of globalization. Turn back to regonalization and nationalism, and the entire modern world collapses.


It's happened before in human history (the Bronze Age collapse, which took thousands of years to recover from), and it will happen again.

"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

Good, hope the Sea Peoples invade Austin Texas.  Remember, the Barbarians are always the good guys … well if they are Huns and Commissars.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Shiranu

Quote from: Baruch on June 01, 2019, 02:06:58 AM
Good, hope the Sea Peoples invade Austin Texas.  Remember, the Barbarians are always the good guys … well if they are Huns and Commissars.

With global warming, they might not even have to travel too far from coast to town :(.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Munch

Quote from: Shiranu on June 01, 2019, 03:54:24 PM
With global warming, they might not even have to travel too far from coast to town :(.

The more people in developed countries, the more fossil fuels burned, the more aerosols used, and the more industries producing waste/carbon emission.
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin