Author Topic: Argument From Consciousness  (Read 820 times)

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Argument From Consciousness
« Reply #90 on: December 07, 2018, 05:24:57 AM »
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I am not arguing for the God of the Bible, or including any assumptions about the being such as the idea that we were "created in God's image."

Lol, you are arguing for an abrahamic god. You are just doing it with an untraditional language and from a less common perspective. Basically you are just trying to upgrade the traditional outlook by chopping certain aspects of the common understanding which is far more traditional than you think. It's what we call, new age hokum.

What you describe here as 'consciousness' is a modern cooked up idea of the 'soul'; as a creator; the eternal source for the soul. What makes beings uniquely themselves. They are themselves and make sense because they include a part of that 'soul', in your terms, that 'consciousness'.

There is a common way of reasoning that leads the most people to believe their god is omnipotent. Because as they believe it created all things, they also believe it includes the knowledge of all things. A perfect circle. So their understanding is that god must be omnipotent...and so on. A primitive understanding of the old world of everything black and white, like perfect geometrical shapes; an order. Otherwise it is chaos which is evil according to that understanding, that belief.

[As the human itself is not, somebody, something must be omnipotent. Desire for control. Because we start to live without choosing and then we die. We feel pain. Think about it like a fantasy, a desire reflected to a fantasy being. An anthropomorphic fantasy, if you will. Pretty much like pagan gods, because it is an upgraded version of them. Actually which makes the term 'monotheism', one god pretty useless and again an anthropomorphic fantasy from the second level if you put that desire for control; order in the first level.]

But while people believe or want to believe in a god, they don't buy this any more, do they? For some time now, the old picture falls short. Esp. today as we are living in a world that finds out more everyday that chaos/coincidence is the begining and the common state of existance and being; a world that now understands that majority of concepts the most intelligent species it knows has created for thousands of years are just anthropomorphic bullshit, but nothing else. Talk about depression, struggle and search.

So what you -and a lot of people- are doing is trying to upgrade the understanding of abrahamic god(s) into a new, more satisfying one. Because doesn't matter how you describe it, you are coming from the same point of 'some special substance of its own' giving meaning to all things and that without it nothing makes sense. You just named it differently, the name you thought would make the most sense. So when you start to describe it in more vague, grey terms or spirituality or energy, some different terms replacing the old ones, polishing sides of it...etc. you are not offering something different.     

Human consciousness is nothing but a series of chemical reactions in the brain. When you use the word consciousness in a way that makes you content, it doesn't become something else. Same with your concept of god.

I'll go further and claim that humans cannot imagine a fundamentally different idea of god than the one changes between pagan and abrahamic gods. In the end, the abrahamic god.   

 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 05:29:34 AM by drunkenshoe »

Offline Baruch

Re: Argument From Consciousness
« Reply #91 on: December 07, 2018, 07:24:03 AM »
Only in European solipsism.  There, Descartes, invented mind, having mutated it from soul.  But the Chinese and Indians have a much older tradition.  Being from Turkey, you are naturally focused on the Abrahamic tradition.  That isn't what you would be saying if you were a dissident from the Indian tradition.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Argument From Consciousness
« Reply #92 on: December 07, 2018, 08:28:17 AM »
I am skipping your meaningless Descartes remark. A 17th century philosopher's definition of scepticism; existence is not relevant to us. Frankly, nobody who lived before Realism is relevant to us. And I am being generous, sweety, I woke up from the right side of the bed today, as we say. :) Stop throwing random milestones around the way you like.       

The Chinese and Hinduism beliefs are 'oh soo enlightening and different' if you live in Europe or in the States. If yoou live in a certain life standart in a lawful country. Not for people who were born and living in these countries; societies those traditions created. That's why belief is belief and religion is religion and hence the cultures they create. With typical gods or not. They are all the same thing.

No, I am not naturally focused on the Abrahamic traditions, I am just talking about a specific concept of god which belongs to Abrahamic tradition. And far eastern traditions are translated into to Abrahamic traditions long time ago. Also, the culture I live in is much closer to the cultures you count up there than mainstream Christianity. Before Islamisation, Turkic tribes had very similar beliefs and traditions; they were nomadic tribes. 

E: By the way what is that? Argument from which is older? LOL   

 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 08:31:06 AM by drunkenshoe »

Offline SGOS

Re: Argument From Consciousness
« Reply #93 on: December 07, 2018, 10:18:53 AM »
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E: By the way what is that? Argument from which is older? LOL   
argumentum ad antΔ«quum?

Offline Baruch

Re: Argument From Consciousness
« Reply #94 on: December 07, 2018, 11:17:08 AM »
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argumentum ad antΔ«quum?

argumentum ad enlightenum

Buddha is the original woke person.  Seculars are simply nastika.  Secularism itself is Eurocentric, White, Racist, Imperialism.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

 

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