Argument From Consciousness

[Unbeliever]

Birdy seems to think she's got an idea of what a God should be like and so she's sure that God actually is exactly like she pictures it.

[Birdy23]

Birdy seems to think she's got an idea of what a God should be like and so she's sure that God actually is exactly like she pictures it.

I have other beliefs about God, I have simplified it for the purpose of this discussion.

Unlike you, who knows that the world is devoid of purpose or meaning.

[Shiranu]

If I might ask, was there a purpose to all of this?

It seems we are just arguing random concepts rather than an actual idea at this point.

[Birdy23]

Well, when you say that God has awareness, intelligence, consciousness, etc., that's not defining God, it's only listing some possible attributes of what you think of as God. Presumably, if Santa Claus existed, he too would have those very same attributes, so he'd be no different from this God you're going on about.

This is a false equivalence.

[Birdy23]

If I might ask, was there a purpose to all of this?

It seems we are just arguing random concepts rather than an actual idea at this point.

What is the difference between a random concept and an idea?

[Unbeliever]

This is a false equivalence.

So you say. I say otherwise.

[Unbeliever]

What is the difference between a random concept and an idea?

We haven't yet heard any ideas from you, just blatherskite.

[aitm]

My definition of God is being with consciousness only, who created the universe. He doesn't have to be all-knowing, omnipresent, infallible, all-loving...

And yet you suggest that a "thing" has existed forever, before anything else existed, and doesn't have to be all-knowing but knew all about things that didn't exist...enough to know how to create them from sub-atomic particles (that didn't exist) and thus forced them into particular laws (that he knew nothing of) and created a universe of such immensity that the human's known galaxy was but a grain of sand in comparison and then........by and high......reveal his almightyness to said microscopic humans and said, "I made this for you...I love you...oh and just for fun...in order to live you must kill and eat each other....BUHAHAHAHAHA!! " Yeah.......the rest of your thoughts were dismissed as well....meh.

[Shiranu]

What is the difference between a random concept and an idea?

I guess I actually used the words backwards. My bad.

What is the overarching concept we are discussing? Instead we are just talking random, individual ideas that don't seem to be getting to any real point.

[Birdy23]

And yet you suggest that a "thing" has existed forever, before anything else existed, and doesn't have to be all-knowing but knew all about things that didn't exist...enough to know how to create them from sub-atomic particles (that didn't exist) and thus forced them into particular laws (that he knew nothing of) and created a universe of such immensity that the human's known galaxy was but a grain of sand in comparison and then........by and high......reveal his almightyness to said microscopic humans and said, "I made this for you...I love you...oh and just for fun...in order to live you must kill and eat each other....BUHAHAHAHAHA!! " Yeah.......the rest of your thoughts were dismissed as well....meh.

There there. It must be hard, trying to fathom external thought processes. And you're a MODERATOR, too huh? You big boy you.

[Mike Cl]

I have other beliefs about God, I have simplified it for the purpose of this discussion.

Unlike you, who knows that the world is devoid of purpose or meaning.

You see, Birdy, this is what theists that come to this board do.  You say that Unbeliever says the world is devoid of purpose or meaning.  He (nor I) said that.  Why are theists so insistent about putting words into the mouths of atheists?  The world or universe is without any inherent purpose or meaning.  It's only purpose is to be.  Period.  Whatever meaning or purpose I want my life to have I have to supply it.  And I do.  My life has purpose and it has meaning.  I am content with what my life has been and what I think it will be.  In any case, I give it meaning--or not.  One of my choices.  I don't need a supernatural force or entity to do that--I can do it myself.  The purpose of life is life; the purpose of the universe is the universe.

[Baruch]

Birdy23 ... once you concede materialism, you might as well be an atheist.  Once you concede naturalism, humanity isn't important either.  What undermines most arguments, whether people realize it or not, are their hidden or unexamined assumptions.

[GSOgymrat]

It seems to me that atheists do not assign enough significance to the concept of self-awareness and consciousness. You can't prove that consciousness exists. Consciousness cannot be measured because it is not quantifiable.

Considering I think consciousness is necessary for existance, that it is the one thing I know to be true, I don't know how I can give it more significance. I don't have to prove that consciousness exists because the fact I am experiencing anything indicates I have consciouness. Whether other people I encounter are conscious is something I can't prove and I have to take on faith. It is possible "I" am the only conscious being. It is also possible what I think of "I" and what you think of as "you" and what Baruch thinks of as "Baruch" are one consciousness that has divided itself, similar to what is seen in split brain. This is all very fanciful but the bottom line is if GSOgymrat doesn't want to suffer unwanted consequences GSOgymrat needs to treat other people as though they were experiencing consciousness similarly.

[Hydra009]

There there. It must be hard, trying to fathom external thought processes. And you're a MODERATOR, too huh? You big boy you.

This one's a real charmer!  Quite a desirable new addition to our little community.  The years will just fly by.

[sdelsolray]

This is a rather undisciplined thread, mostly due to OP Birdy23's somewhat random musings and mere assertions.

Birdy23:  You started this thread with the title "Argument from Consciousness".  Three suggestions:

1)  Stay on that topic;

2)  Before going any further provide your definition of consciousness (what it is and what it is not); and

3)  After that, do the hard work to develop a consensus of that defintion.