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LoTR is Racist!

Started by pr126, November 27, 2018, 12:03:33 AM

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Baruch

#45
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 30, 2018, 10:19:15 AM
Not all of Sauron's troops were "naturally evil". Faramir wondered what lies they were told.

Not all evil ... were any evil?  I am beginning to wonder.  Sorry, the White hat/Black hat narrative is racism itself.  Hitler etc were never wrong, nobody is.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Blackleaf

"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Gawdzilla Sama

Galadriel's comments about Sauron's fabrication of the ring at the beginning of "Fellowship" explained why it was dangerous. Sauron's corporeal form was destroyed when the ring was severed from him, but the core essence of Sauron survived in the ring. Frodo and Bilbo had so little power that ring could only influence them to make bad choices.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Shiranu

QuoteFrodo and Bilbo had so little power that ring could only influence them to make bad choices.

The same could be said of almost all men, though.




"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

Quote from: Blackleaf on November 30, 2018, 01:33:18 PM


I piss on anyone's virtue signaling.  If Russia is Satan, then Hitler was right to try to destroy it, and the Allies were wrong to support Stalin.  With a Nazi victory, there would only be German-style socialism in Europe (EU with a real army), Stalinism would be dead, and Mao would have ended up in Auschwitz.  Would, from the POV of W European democratic socialists, that be all that bad?  Black-White thinking is simple minded.  The good are bad, and the bad are good.  Just ask the folks at Hiroshima.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Shiranu on November 30, 2018, 06:39:33 PM
The same could be said of almost all men, though.

Are you short, with hairy feet?  Didn't think so.  More like the tragic king of Gondor who couldn't destroy the ring (I can use it for liberalism!).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Gawdzilla Sama

Quote from: Baruch on November 30, 2018, 07:21:00 PM
I piss on anyone's virtue signaling.  If Russia is Satan, then Hitler was right to try to destroy it, and the Allies were wrong to support Stalin.  With a Nazi victory, there would only be German-style socialism in Europe (EU with a real army), Stalinism would be dead, and Mao would have ended up in Auschwitz.  Would, from the POV of W European democratic socialists, that be all that bad?  Black-White thinking is simple minded.  The good are bad, and the bad are good.  Just ask the folks at Hiroshima.
Your word salad needs croutons.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Baruch

#52
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 30, 2018, 07:56:35 PM
Your word salad needs croutons.

The idea that in some objective way (rather than some chauvinist way) the US is good, and that who we choose to fight are bad ... is closed minded.  Particularly for gay/video-gaming/sci fantasy addicts.  Thinking alternative history (British victory over Washington or the US siding with Kaiser Wilhelm) is simply smart.  Of course it is an armchair exercise.  Given some intentional change over here, there is no way to prevent an unintended change over there.

How about a Persian victory over the Greeks?  Prevent Western Civ from forming in the first place.  It would make the SJW wet their underoos.  Or the Chinese junk fleet getting to California circa 1500, and preventing European colonization in the New World.  Then the Chinese would be 500 years ahead of their current plan ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPxFvZE_-GM

The number 2 language in the US, in 1914, was German.  In the 1920s-1930s, the US War Dept had Plan Red, to defeat the British Empire and seize Canada.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Gawdzilla Sama

"It is better to have a plan and not need it than to need a plan and not have it."

The War Plans were developed at the Army and Navy War Colleges. The northern border of the US presents a nearly unique situation, many miles of undefended, and in some cases indefensible, border. So studying how we would do that gives us a chance to consider what is needed in such a war.

The idea that we were planning to go to war with Brits is shear dumbassery.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Baruch

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 01, 2018, 06:59:04 AM
"It is better to have a plan and not need it than to need a plan and not have it."

The War Plans were developed at the Army and Navy War Colleges. The northern border of the US presents a nearly unique situation, many miles of undefended, and in some cases indefensible, border. So studying how we would do that gives us a chance to consider what is needed in such a war.

The idea that we were planning to go to war with Brits is shear dumbassery.

We plan to go to war with every nation ... not if, but when.  Humans are predatory.  The US is predatory.  Not that is a bad thing.  I predated on a chicken for supper last night ;-)  If you want to see real efficient predation, you have to study a vegetarian like Hitler.

And in particular, the US, not not Britain, might have been better off without the BoE coup of Federal Reserve in 1913.  It was originally Teddy Roosevelt who made Britain and France become partners, before 1913.  He was pro-British (as am I).  But that doesn't make it right, even with his face on Mt Rushmore.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Gawdzilla Sama

Quote from: Baruch on December 01, 2018, 08:07:17 AM
We plan to go to war with every nation ... not if, but when.  Humans are predatory.  The US is predatory.  Not that is a bad thing.  I predated on a chicken for supper last night ;-)  If you want to see real efficient predation, you have to study a vegetarian like Hitler.

And in particular, the US, not not Britain, might have been better off without the BoE coup of Federal Reserve in 1913.  It was originally Teddy Roosevelt who made Britain and France become partners, before 1913.  He was pro-British (as am I).  But that doesn't make it right, even with his face on Mt Rushmore.
I started laughing at the first sentence. You're the second most ignorable person on this forum.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Baruch

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 01, 2018, 12:15:31 PM
I started laughing at the first sentence. You're the second most ignorable person on this forum.

I will have to keep trying then ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 30, 2018, 02:36:49 PM
Galadriel's comments about Sauron's fabrication of the ring at the beginning of "Fellowship" explained why it was dangerous. Sauron's corporeal form was destroyed when the ring was severed from him, but the core essence of Sauron survived in the ring. Frodo and Bilbo had so little power that ring could only influence them to make bad choices.

I'm not quite sure about that.  I think Sauron certainly sufferred a great loss of power when he lost the One Ring he had put so much of his power into, but he surely still held much.  And I have the impression that the power of the One Ring was such that it sought the best way to return to Sauron. 

And I had the impression that Sauron willingly changed his form to The Eye rather than was forced to give up his corporeal form (I would not debate this, as I said "impression" in a slight uncertainity).  But I think most of him was still there aside from the Ring. 

Consider thgis.  When the Ring was present at the Council Of Elrond, was Sauron present?  No, the Ring gained power by closeness to Sauron.  So Sauron was still the major force (as I think a Mian).

When Gollum took the Ring, Sauron was still the majot force (see the Nazgul streaking to My Doom).

But I am at the limits of my recollection.

But there was also a suggestion that the Hobbits (being relatively innocent of power) were not so "of little power" as being less influenced by it.  Bilbo gave it up 3 times after all (once to Gandalf to examine, once when it was thrown into his fireplace, and finally in the envelope to Frodo.  As Gandalf said "Hobbits are rather tough".  And Frodo set the Ring aside at the Council Of Elrond (forgive me if I don't get some of the terms exactly right, it's been years).

It was only after the hardships of bearing the Ring even to the very heart of Mordor that Frodo began to yield to the power. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Good analysis.  If I was Sauron, I would be primarily incorporeal by design, and use the physical form as tele-dildonics.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 12, 2019, 08:33:07 AM
Good analysis.  If I was Sauron, I would be primarily incorporeal by design, and use the physical form as tele-dildonics.
I looked that up.  I saw and left...

More importantly, IIRC, Sauron never seduced anyone quite that way. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!