Author Topic: LoTR is Racist!  (Read 561 times)

Offline pr126

LoTR is Racist!
« on: November 27, 2018, 12:03:33 AM »
From the WTF files.


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"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Cognitive-dissonance is fighting for women's rights and LBGT rights while defending Islam and Muslims against "Islamophobia".

Offline Baruch

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2018, 01:02:38 AM »
You knew this kind of cultural criticism was coming, right?  But I consider this no different than secular societies abandoning their historic churches.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Shiranu

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2018, 01:48:56 AM »
Can't be assed into watchindg the video, but I will say the Near Harad (Middle Easterners) were presented as morally savages who willingly joined the forces of Sauron, and the Far Harad are even worse... their blackness is a result of being bred with trolls.

All the while they fight the forces of good, who are all based on Anglo Saxon stock.

You even have Tolkien out right admitting that the Dwarfs and their greed, as well as their lack of a homeland, are heavily influenced by the Jews... as well as multiple instances of him saying that the Rohirrim are Anglo-Saxons, that certain languages are directly correlated to Welsh, Old English, etc. ... it's not like Tolkien didn't flat out admit that his perception of the races didn't influence his works.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how that could be seen as racist, and given the era Tolkien was born and raised in... yeah, he most likely was quite racist.

It goes back to what we are talking about Lovecraft... there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that there are some very racist undertones by books written by old white men at the turn of the century. Just don't be obnoxious about pointing it out and realise that's not enough to warrant discarding these masterpiece works.


« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 01:58:01 AM by Shiranu »
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Offline Baruch

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2018, 02:56:16 AM »
Anybody not Gandhi is racist, and he was one too.  So will you dismiss Tolkien as just another dead White author?
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Shiranu

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2018, 03:57:12 AM »
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Anybody not Gandhi is racist, and he was one too.  So will you dismiss Tolkien as just another dead White author?

I'll call a spade a spade, yes.

Tolkien is one of my top 3 favorite artists of all time, and I even plan on getting something of his work tattooed on my body that will stay with me to the grave. Admiration of someone does not mean blindly ignoring their flaws, however.

I have decided that cultural racism of the past is something I can tolerate and not let taint my opinion of someone's art. Tolkien is though, objectively, just another dead white author... one who wrote absolutely fantastic works, but still a product of the world he lived him. And all evidence points to that world having influenced his work having some racial biases.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 04:33:27 AM by Shiranu »
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2018, 06:05:18 AM »
Fascist complains about racism. That's so funny.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2018, 06:23:19 AM »
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I'll call a spade a spade, yes.

Tolkien is one of my top 3 favorite artists of all time, and I even plan on getting something of his work tattooed on my body that will stay with me to the grave. Admiration of someone does not mean blindly ignoring their flaws, however.

I have decided that cultural racism of the past is something I can tolerate and not let taint my opinion of someone's art. Tolkien is though, objectively, just another dead white author... one who wrote absolutely fantastic works, but still a product of the world he lived him. And all evidence points to that world having influenced his work having some racial biases.

It makes me worry for you, given all the pressures you face.  Gandhi said to Jews ... die now, and if you do it right, you can be reincarnated as a Hindu in India!  Or be reincarnated as a Nazi in 1933, and burn books you don't like.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline trdsf

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2018, 07:31:53 AM »
I'm a lot less bothered about authors who were racist more than half a century ago than I am about political leaders who still are today.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2018, 08:13:19 AM »
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Can't be assed into watchindg the video, but I will say the Near Harad (Middle Easterners) were presented as morally savages who willingly joined the forces of Sauron, and the Far Harad are even worse... their blackness is a result of being bred with trolls.

All the while they fight the forces of good, who are all based on Anglo Saxon stock.

You even have Tolkien out right admitting that the Dwarfs and their greed, as well as their lack of a homeland, are heavily influenced by the Jews... as well as multiple instances of him saying that the Rohirrim are Anglo-Saxons, that certain languages are directly correlated to Welsh, Old English, etc. ... it's not like Tolkien didn't flat out admit that his perception of the races didn't influence his works.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how that could be seen as racist, and given the era Tolkien was born and raised in... yeah, he most likely was quite racist.

It goes back to what we are talking about Lovecraft... there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that there are some very racist undertones by books written by old white men at the turn of the century. Just don't be obnoxious about pointing it out and realise that's not enough to warrant discarding these masterpiece works.




STFU

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2018, 08:23:19 AM »
Tolkien was never displaying racist shit from our world when he created the world. In fact he suggested upon human as a whole people.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 05:25:35 PM by Draconic Aiur »

Online Munch

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2018, 08:59:16 AM »
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I have decided that cultural racism of the past is something I can tolerate and not let taint my opinion of someone's art. Tolkien is though, objectively, just another dead white author... one who wrote absolutely fantastic works, but still a product of the world he lived him. And all evidence points to that world having influenced his work having some racial biases.

You racist.

Offline pr126

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2018, 09:55:21 AM »
How can that be racist? He is dissing white men.   Β―\_(ツ)_/Β―
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 10:01:03 AM by pr126 »
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Cognitive-dissonance is fighting for women's rights and LBGT rights while defending Islam and Muslims against "Islamophobia".

Offline pr126

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2018, 11:01:55 AM »
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"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Cognitive-dissonance is fighting for women's rights and LBGT rights while defending Islam and Muslims against "Islamophobia".

Offline Baruch

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2018, 01:02:02 PM »
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I'm a lot less bothered about authors who were racist more than half a century ago than I am about political leaders who still are today.

OK, but don't hold your breath.  Racism is going nowhere.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Shiranu

Re: LoTR is Racist!
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2018, 01:08:30 PM »
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You racist.

Grow up and/or fuck off dude.

I was quoting what Buruch said about him. Your little kid games of cherry picking aren't cute, they are pathetic.
"Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle." - Rumi

 

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