There is no conscious thought, the way we think we do ...

Started by Baruch, December 25, 2018, 04:27:53 AM

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Baruch

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/there-is-no-such-thing-as-conscious-thought/

There is consciousness, but not conscious thought.  This explains most human behavior, we are mostly unconscious.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

aitm

I put this on the screen and let it play in front of my ficus. When I came back it was gently weeping. Doesn't have much backbone for this....
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

GSOgymrat

From what I have been reading lately, it seems the concept of "self" is an illusion and can be dissolved through disrupting the default mode network of the brain. Consciousness is an emergent process that we don't fully understand. It seems to be constructed through sensory stimulation, memory and cognitive shortcuts. I find all this fascinating and expect we will understand more as neuroscience advances. I also anticipate that the way we understand consciousness now will be viewed as fairly primitive in the future.

Baruch

If your ficus doesn't have a backbone, you should have sent it to VMI, they could have taught it to have backbone there!  How do you expect your potted plants to stand up to the bully plants on the street?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

aitm

Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 25, 2018, 09:41:02 AM
I find all this fascinating and expect we will understand more as neuroscience advances.

Big Pharma, The corporations and Big Brother will know all about it far before we do.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Baruch

Quote from: aitm on December 25, 2018, 10:41:15 AM
Big Pharma, The corporations and Big Brother will know all about it far before we do.

MK Ultra.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on December 25, 2018, 04:27:53 AM
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/there-is-no-such-thing-as-conscious-thought/

There is consciousness, but not conscious thought.  This explains most human behavior, we are mostly unconscious.

I understand the arguments against deliberate conscious action, but I disagree.  I would argue that since we can discuss our own consciousness, we have it.  Yeah, Descartes and all that.

But I would further argue that because I can sit here and consider many possible actions, thinking of them before I choose one, I have free will (which is what this is really about after all).  Given a set of possible actions in my forethought, I choose.

But let's say that only says my preconscious knew what I would choose among several possibilities.  So let's list several possibilities and assign numbers 1-6 to them.  Odd numbers mean I finish this post and even numbers mean I don't.

I roll an
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

I agree.  That is how I define consciousness ... as self reference.  I can imagine myself doing and sensing, before I actually do it.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on December 26, 2018, 02:53:43 AM
I agree.  That is how I define consciousness ... as self reference.  I can imagine myself doing and sensing, before I actually do it.

In some instances yes.  But I offerred one that was not.  Explain that please.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on December 29, 2018, 05:10:07 PM
In some instances yes.  But I offerred one that was not.  Explain that please.

If you are distracted, then that clearly is an example of the exception that proves that we are mostly faking consciousness.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on December 29, 2018, 05:19:35 PM
If you are distracted, then that clearly is an example of the exception that proves that we are mostly faking consciousness.

So, an action of distraction is, to you, proof that we are not conscious?  Wouldn't that mean that all the times we are NOT distracted is proof of consciousess?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on December 29, 2018, 05:28:33 PM
So, an action of distraction is, to you, proof that we are not conscious?  Wouldn't that mean that all the times we are NOT distracted is proof of consciousess?

Shh .. don't jump ahead ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.