Author Topic: A hymn to the old ways ...  (Read 733 times)

Offline Baruch

A hymn to the old ways ...
« on: November 19, 2018, 08:35:34 PM »
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People once had a genos-ancestry, demos-people, nomos-rule of life, pathos-passion for life, autos-self, ethos-attitude, logos-language, archos-leadership, andros-manhood, ethnos-culture, gamos-marriage, philos-brotherly love, orthos-right

All part of cosmos-order, bios-life, chronos-time, phos-light
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2018, 09:50:41 PM »
The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history - George Orwell

Every generation, of anarchist, rebellious, criminal, autistic revolutionaries ... will try to destroy what is, in favor of what never can be (utopia).

But they are just xenos (foreign).  Barbaroi.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:52:18 PM by Baruch »
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2018, 01:50:21 PM »
I want this to be an ongoing mini-channel celebrating ancient Greek culture.  Dead White Men Arise From Hades!

The theater had a chorus.  Here is an updated version, starring young Classicists.

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πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2018, 03:05:30 PM »
Aeschylus, the Athenian ... is the primary inventor of Western theater.  He and his brother fought at Marathon, and his brother died there.  Without Aeschylus, would there be theater as we know it today?

Here are two short documentaries in Marathon, without Athenian victory, there would be no Greco-Roman civilization, to be a component of Western civilization.

The description of Herodotus, founder of Western history, himself from Helicarnassus, a town in Greek Asia (W Turkey), which had been subjugated by Persia.  His history was premiered as a public recitation, in the first Odeon or covered theater, on the side of the Acropolis.  Next to it was the open theater of Dionysus, where the first tragedies and comedies were premiered.  This first Odeon, was built of wood, taken from Persian ships destroyed in the battle of Salamis, just outside the Athenian harbor, which happened 10 years after Marathon, during the second invasion of Greece by Persia.

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Greater detail, as a machinima, of the primary battle.

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πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2018, 11:08:31 PM »
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A quick summary of Greek history, with no disrespect intended to Persians nor Turks.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2018, 11:16:35 PM »
To round things out, on the first post in this series ...

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πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2019, 05:21:22 AM »
For the oldest non-European cultures ...

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πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2019, 01:45:27 PM »
More far ancestors speak to us again ... live again (as they understood it)

Thebes ... Egyptian tied with Sumerian as the oldest written language ... originally Memphis was the first Egyptian capital

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Babylon ... originally Agade was the first Semitic capital, later it was Babylon, and later still Nineveh

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Hattusas ... the oldest Indo-European written language ... Hattusas was their primary capital in central Anatolia

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Washukanni ... capital of the Hurrians/Mitanni ... in NW Iraq/NE Syria.  Distantly related to the Armenians

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Susa ... capital of the Elamites ... in SW Iran ... competitors to the Sumerians and Babylonians

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Mykenae ... capital of the Bronze Age Greeks

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Proto-Indo-European (neolithic, SW Russia) ...

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Hittite (etc) and Mycenean are the only Bronze Age written Indo-European languages.  Proto-Indo-European is the oldest ancestor of the language we use here ... baring loan words (some of which originate way back in Egypt or Sumer).
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 03:31:35 PM by Baruch »
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2019, 02:01:56 PM »
Thanks Baruch for sharing these videos showing how sound these extinct languages even if it can't be 100% accurate.

Offline Baruch

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2019, 10:18:32 PM »
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Thanks Baruch for sharing these videos showing how sound these extinct languages even if it can't be 100% accurate.

I study many languages and cultures.  Presently reviewing Ancient Egyptian, to get ready for an on-line class.  Currently in an on-line class on Sumerian.  And many others in prior years.  By listening to ancient languages (or contemporary ones) you can participate, as a listener, in the lives of people long ago or far away, in a special way, even if you don't understand the words.  You are mind to mind.  Even better if you learn some of the language.

If you are interested in any particular culture or time period, I am open to friendly discussion, always.  I hope that (if you are still in France) that things are well with you.  And you aren't too offended by Anglophone franco-phobia rhetoric.  In my wanna-be list, visiting France for an extended period, is always high on the list, d'accord?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 01:12:22 AM by Baruch »
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2019, 05:46:36 PM »
I haven't any problem with Anglophone Franco-Phobia because I believe it's a sign of sanity to live in a society with freedom of speech.
I'm a French citizen living in France since I'm born and I haven't another citizenship and I can't renounce to it for legal reasons (You must have another citizenship to renounce French one or have a naturalisation request from another country pending).

Americans can be proud to live in a society with first amendment of their constitution.
USA is a place with higher freedom of expression of the Western world and US citizen can be proud of that.

In France you risk maximum 1 year of prison and 15 000 € of fine (Article 433-5 of code pΓ©nal or penal code in English that is our criminal code) if you insult a cop when in USA this is not a criminal matter because the first amendment of your constitution permit it.
Unhappily people can be prosecuted because they insulted a cop even if they didn't do it because of false accusation.
Corruption in police (Cover police officers who beat people , steal things during a search , make false accusation etc...) does exist but it does seem to be a minority.
This is why I avoid contact with police force (I have a phobia of impulse with them because I don't trust this institution. I'm afraid to insult them without want it but fortunately this is just a phobia impulse).

Corruption in judical system (Guardianship abuse , rigged procedure in commercial matters , judged who destroy evidences in civil matters etc...) does exist but it does seem to be a minority.
If nothing is done against corruption it will worsen.



Why learn extinct languages ?
How can we participate in the lives people deceased long time ago by listening theirs languages if they aren't alive  ?
I agree with you about the fact listening contemporary languages of people living far away make participate us in theirs lives ?
Which ancient and contemporary languages do you know ?

Offline Baruch

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2019, 07:23:09 PM »
The hate speech laws in the EU are a tricky business.  It can so easily be used to suppress legitimate non-violent dissent.  This is not to say that there is anything wrong with the EU, they are simply not the US.  Neither is GB or even Canada.

On the other hand, the US is moving rapidly, per neo-con/neo-lib agreement into a Chinese style Internet dictatorship.  We will have to see how far the "free speech" can be nullified by Deep State fiat, without violating the letter of the law.  The spirit of the law, however is routinely raped here.  In US terms, with Liberty being Marianne, she is pretty much a NYC whore now.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2019, 05:29:32 AM »
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The hate speech laws in the EU are a tricky business.  It can so easily be used to suppress legitimate non-violent dissent.  This is not to say that there is anything wrong with the EU, they are simply not the US.  Neither is GB or even Canada.

On the other hand, the US is moving rapidly, per neo-con/neo-lib agreement into a Chinese style Internet dictatorship.  We will have to see how far the "free speech" can be nullified by Deep State fiat, without violating the letter of the law.  The spirit of the law, however is routinely raped here.  In US terms, with Liberty being Marianne, she is pretty much a NYC whore now.

You are speaking about hate speech laws in EU countries.
The article of French penal code I was speaking with you (433-5) is problematic because its content can be interpreted in many ways.
I think the "dΓ©lit d'outrage" or "contempt delict , contempt misdemeanour" must be abrogated fully or abrogated to become a contravention or petty offence in English to prepare its full abrogation. There were so many abuses of prosecutions that we must abolish it and many people where prosecuted for imaginary contempt because they were falsely accused.

In the French criminal system there are three categories of "infractions pΓ©nales" (Penal infractions / Criminal infractions / Criminal offences).
You can find contravention (petty offence) divided in five classes defined in article 131-13 of penal code.
The fine is a possible penalty among many like lose your right to own a firearm , complete a citizenship course (Stage de citoyennetΓ©) at the offender's expense , compensate your victim etc... but you can't be jailed for a petty offense.
The first category is punishable by a maximum fine of €38.
The second category is punishable by a maximum fine of €150.
The third category is punishable by a maximum fine of €450.
The fourth category is punishable by a maximum fine of €750.
The fifth category is punishable by a maximum fine of €1500.
For some fifth category petty offence a repeat offence = a maximum fine of €3000.
For some fifth category petty offence a repeat offence = A felony
Read articles 131-12 to 131-18 of French penal code to understand what are penalties available for petty offences.
Google translate can help.

You can find dΓ©lit (Delict / Misdemeanour).
The maximum penalty for a misdemeanour can't exceed ten years of jail sentence.
The fine is a possible penalty among many like lose your right to own a firearm , lose your right to vote (rarely enforced) , lose your driving licence etc...
Fines for a felony are between €3750 and €7,500,000
If a person face a fine of €3750 the judge can lowered it and a judge can condemn you to a fine of €1 symbolic euro.
Minimum penalties don't exist in French penal system. There are only maximum penalties.
Read articles 131-3 to 131-9 French penal code to understand what are basic penalties available for felonies.

You can find crime that can be translated as felony (We don't pronounce it as the English word crime but spelling is the same).
The minimal sentence for a felony is 10 years of jail but judge is not under obligation to condemn person by the minimal sentence as he can lowered it.
The maximum sentence for a felony is life imprisonment with a parole of 22 or 30 years. Without parole doesn't exist in France.
The fine is a possible penalty among many like lose your right to own a firearm , lose your right to vote (rarely enforced) , being prohibited to be in contact with some individuals etc...
Fines for a felony are between €3750 and €7,500,000
If a person face a fine of €3750 the judge can lowered it and a judge can condemn you to a fine of €1 symbolic euro.
Minimum penalties don't exist in French penal system. There are only maximum penalties.
Read articles 131-1 and 131-2 of French penal code to understand what are basic penalties available for felonies.

You must read fully the first book (livre) of penal code which the title is "Disposition GΓ©nΓ©rales" or "General dispositions in English" to understand fully how penalties work.



The penalties indicated in the penal code for any infractions are the maximum and rarely enforced in practice.
Often people who committed a hate speech (Racist speech , Homophobic speech , Sexist speech etc...)  are condemned to "prison avec sursis" (Suspended prison sentence) and not "prison ferme" (prison terms).
I will speak only about contempt today because my message would be extremely long if was quoting the majority of articles in the penal code against hate speech.

Article 433-5 of French penal code in French :

"Constituent un outrage puni de 7 500 euros d'amende les paroles, gestes ou menaces, les Γ©crits ou images de toute nature non rendus publics ou l'envoi d'objets quelconques adressΓ©s Γ  une personne chargΓ©e d'une mission de service public, dans l'exercice ou Γ  l'occasion de l'exercice de sa mission, et de nature Γ  porter atteinte Γ  sa dignitΓ© ou au respect dΓ» Γ  la fonction dont elle est investie.

Lorsqu'il est adressΓ© Γ  une personne dΓ©positaire de l'autoritΓ© publique, l'outrage est puni d'un an d'emprisonnement et de 15 000 euros d'amende.

Lorsqu'il est adressé à une personne chargée d'une mission de service public et que les faits ont été commis à l'intérieur d'un établissement scolaire ou éducatif, ou, à l'occasion des entrées ou sorties des élèves, aux abords d'un tel établissement, l'outrage est puni de six mois d'emprisonnement et de 7 500 euros d'amende.

Lorsqu'il est commis en réunion, l'outrage prévu au premier alinéa est puni de six mois d'emprisonnement et de 7 500 euros d'amende, et l'outrage prévu au deuxième alinéa est puni de deux ans d'emprisonnement et de 30 000 euros d'amende."





Article 433-5 of French penal code in English translated by myself with the help of an old outdated official translation :

"Contempt is punished by a fine of €7,500. It consists of words, gestures or threats, written documents or pictures of
any type not released to the public, or the sending of any article addressed to a person discharging a public service
mission, acting in the discharge or on the occasion of his office, and liable to undermine his dignity or the respect owed
to the office that he holds.

When it is addressed to a person holding public authority, contempt is punished by one's year imprisonment and a
fine of €15,000.

When it is addressed to a person discharging a public service mission and the offence is committed inside a school
or an educational establishment, or in the surroundings of such an establishment at a time when the pupils are arriving
or leaving the premises, contempt is punished by six months' imprisonment and by a fine for €7,500.

When committed during a meeting, contempt under the first paragraph is punished by six months' imprisonment and
a fine of €7,500, and the contempt set out in the second paragraph is punished by two year's imprisonment and a fine of
€30,000."

Offline Baruch

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2019, 06:56:47 AM »
France is different, and culturally influential.  Nothing wrong with that, unless one wants to live some other way.  Most posters here, who are American, would rather be another nationality.  And wage a doomed war to convince the majority to be more like Sweden etc.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: A hymn to the old ways ...
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2019, 08:06:08 AM »
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You are speaking about hate speech laws in EU countries.
The article of French penal code I was speaking with you (433-5) is problematic because its content can be interpreted in many ways.
I think the "dΓ©lit d'outrage" or "contempt delict , contempt misdemeanour" must be abrogated fully or abrogated to become a contravention or petty offence in English to prepare its full abrogation. There were so many abuses of prosecutions that we must abolish it and many people where prosecuted for imaginary contempt because they were falsely accused.

In the French criminal system there are three categories of "infractions pΓ©nales" (Penal infractions / Criminal infractions / Criminal offences).
You can find contravention (petty offence) divided in five classes defined in article 131-13 of penal code.
The fine is a possible penalty among many like lose your right to own a firearm , complete a citizenship course (Stage de citoyennetΓ©) at the offender's expense , compensate your victim etc... but you can't be jailed for a petty offense.
The first category is punishable by a maximum fine of €38.
The second category is punishable by a maximum fine of €150.
The third category is punishable by a maximum fine of €450.
The fourth category is punishable by a maximum fine of €750.
The fifth category is punishable by a maximum fine of €1500.
For some fifth category petty offence a repeat offence = a maximum fine of €3000.
For some fifth category petty offence a repeat offence = A felony
Read articles 131-12 to 131-18 of French penal code to understand what are penalties available for petty offences.
Google translate can help.

You can find dΓ©lit (Delict / Misdemeanour).
The maximum penalty for a misdemeanour can't exceed ten years of jail sentence.
The fine is a possible penalty among many like lose your right to own a firearm , lose your right to vote (rarely enforced) , lose your driving licence etc...
Fines for a felony are between €3750 and €7,500,000
If a person face a fine of €3750 the judge can lowered it and a judge can condemn you to a fine of €1 symbolic euro.
Minimum penalties don't exist in French penal system. There are only maximum penalties.
Read articles 131-3 to 131-9 French penal code to understand what are basic penalties available for felonies.

You can find crime that can be translated as felony (We don't pronounce it as the English word crime but spelling is the same).
The minimal sentence for a felony is 10 years of jail but judge is not under obligation to condemn person by the minimal sentence as he can lowered it.
The maximum sentence for a felony is life imprisonment with a parole of 22 or 30 years. Without parole doesn't exist in France.
The fine is a possible penalty among many like lose your right to own a firearm , lose your right to vote (rarely enforced) , being prohibited to be in contact with some individuals etc...
Fines for a felony are between €3750 and €7,500,000
If a person face a fine of €3750 the judge can lowered it and a judge can condemn you to a fine of €1 symbolic euro.
Minimum penalties don't exist in French penal system. There are only maximum penalties.
Read articles 131-1 and 131-2 of French penal code to understand what are basic penalties available for felonies.

You must read fully the first book (livre) of penal code which the title is "Disposition GΓ©nΓ©rales" or "General dispositions in English" to understand fully how penalties work.



The penalties indicated in the penal code for any infractions are the maximum and rarely enforced in practice.
Often people who committed a hate speech (Racist speech , Homophobic speech , Sexist speech etc...)  are condemned to "prison avec sursis" (Suspended prison sentence) and not "prison ferme" (prison terms).
I will speak only about contempt today because my message would be extremely long if was quoting the majority of articles in the penal code against hate speech.

Article 433-5 of French penal code in French :

"Constituent un outrage puni de 7 500 euros d'amende les paroles, gestes ou menaces, les Γ©crits ou images de toute nature non rendus publics ou l'envoi d'objets quelconques adressΓ©s Γ  une personne chargΓ©e d'une mission de service public, dans l'exercice ou Γ  l'occasion de l'exercice de sa mission, et de nature Γ  porter atteinte Γ  sa dignitΓ© ou au respect dΓ» Γ  la fonction dont elle est investie.

Lorsqu'il est adressΓ© Γ  une personne dΓ©positaire de l'autoritΓ© publique, l'outrage est puni d'un an d'emprisonnement et de 15 000 euros d'amende.

Lorsqu'il est adressé à une personne chargée d'une mission de service public et que les faits ont été commis à l'intérieur d'un établissement scolaire ou éducatif, ou, à l'occasion des entrées ou sorties des élèves, aux abords d'un tel établissement, l'outrage est puni de six mois d'emprisonnement et de 7 500 euros d'amende.

Lorsqu'il est commis en réunion, l'outrage prévu au premier alinéa est puni de six mois d'emprisonnement et de 7 500 euros d'amende, et l'outrage prévu au deuxième alinéa est puni de deux ans d'emprisonnement et de 30 000 euros d'amende."





Article 433-5 of French penal code in English translated by myself with the help of an old outdated official translation :

"Contempt is punished by a fine of €7,500. It consists of words, gestures or threats, written documents or pictures of
any type not released to the public, or the sending of any article addressed to a person discharging a public service
mission, acting in the discharge or on the occasion of his office, and liable to undermine his dignity or the respect owed
to the office that he holds.

When it is addressed to a person holding public authority, contempt is punished by one's year imprisonment and a
fine of €15,000.

When it is addressed to a person discharging a public service mission and the offence is committed inside a school
or an educational establishment, or in the surroundings of such an establishment at a time when the pupils are arriving
or leaving the premises, contempt is punished by six months' imprisonment and by a fine for €7,500.

When committed during a meeting, contempt under the first paragraph is punished by six months' imprisonment and
a fine of €7,500, and the contempt set out in the second paragraph is punished by two year's imprisonment and a fine of
€30,000."


After some considerable thought...   FUCK OFF...  I'm deleting my EU notice from my blog.  You guys are assholes...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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