Author Topic: What do I get out of worship?  (Read 2204 times)

Offline Baruch

What do I get out of worship?
« on: November 02, 2018, 11:37:43 PM »
Sharing age old practices with fellow Jews, including the traditional blessing over the challah (bread) and wine.  I find it attractive to participate in some things that are over 2000 years old.  I don't hate the past.  I also don't fear the future.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Online Mr.Obvious

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Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2018, 04:07:57 AM »
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Sharing age old practices with fellow Jews, including the traditional blessing over the challah (bread) and wine.  I find it attractive to participate in some things that are over 2000 years old.  I don't hate the past.  I also don't fear the future.

I don't hate the past either.
But as a former catholic, waiting in line in a big cold building for a stale cracker and a sip of wine doesn't appeal to me, especially after being told I'm a bad person for thirty minutes straight.

Keeping traditions alive is fine, however. As long as they don't obstruct you or anyone from living their life to the fullest.
If it aids you to do just that. More power to you.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Offline Baruch

Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2018, 11:10:13 AM »
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I don't hate the past either.
But as a former catholic, waiting in line in a big cold building for a stale cracker and a sip of wine doesn't appeal to me, especially after being told I'm a bad person for thirty minutes straight.

Keeping traditions alive is fine, however. As long as they don't obstruct you or anyone from living their life to the fullest.
If it aids you to do just that. More power to you.

Yes, but what about anarchists and savages ... they hold nothing sacred ;-)  And yes, don't tell me I can't rob, rape and kill people ... that is denying freedoms ;-(  Just saying, you are a statistic of one.  Your neighbors per 20th century, aren't so nice, including Belgian fascists or supporters of the Belgian Congo.  I feel unsafe being opening Jewish in the US, how much more so in Europe.

Europeans have a rather strange view of religion relative to the US.  Many of us came here to get away from the other Europeans.  Often because we wanted to practice religion our own way, not because we were sans-culottes guillotining priests.  With the tie in between religion and monarchy, in liberalizing times, it is no surprise that atheism writ large happened in Europe first.

The majority of my ancestors are Catholic, but I feel no attraction ... that is just me.  Others like my older brother, feel different about it.

I am glad you are free to be non-religious.  And I assume that isn't a cover (for anyone here) for what should be called criminal activity, in any culture.  And anti-semitism is something I see on the Internet every day.  But I wouldn't out-law it.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2018, 11:19:29 AM »
'Worship'--What an ugly word.  What an ugly concept.
worΒ·ship
/ˈwΙ™rSHΙ™p/Submit
noun
1.
the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
"the worship of God"
synonyms:   reverence, veneration, adoration, glorification, glory, exaltation; More
verb
1.
show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites.
"the Maya built jungle pyramids to worship their gods"
synonyms:   revere, reverence, venerate, pay homage to, honor, adore, praise, pray to, glorify, exalt,

All of that is ugly and unreasonable.  Why show any of that for a fiction?  Especially one constructed for the purpose of controlling the masses?  Superstition on steroids.  But I must admit, it has been and still is very effective.  The religious just love to be jerked around by the nose by their 'leaders' because I guess they are just unwilling to give any thought to what it is they do or believe in. 

But then, you were explaining why you worship.  You are free (because you are a theist) to believe in what you want.  Atheists are not that free in expressing their thoughts.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2018, 11:25:17 AM »
In my case, I don't worship.  I liturgy in traditional ways .. daven.  Christians and Muslims have their war gods to worship.  Constantine and Umar.

And in egomaniacal America, we only worship ourselves.  Money sometimes, but mostly ourselves.  Voyage of the ship of fools.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2018, 11:31:21 AM »
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In my case, I don't worship.  I liturgy in traditional ways .. daven.  Christians and Muslims have their war gods to worship.  Constantine and Umar.

And in egomaniacal America, we only worship ourselves.  Money sometimes, but mostly ourselves.  Voyage of the ship of fools.
Wait a minute--do you or do you not worship?  You said it both ways--but since you are a theist, I guess that is par for the course. 

Were you trying to say you like traditional stuff--or, at least, some.  My wife is like that.  She likes and appreciates some 'rites of life or passage'--like graduations, some church rituals, weddings, and most other social rituals.  I'm not so hot for them, but I do see that sometimes they have a role to play.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2018, 11:39:56 AM »
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Wait a minute--do you or do you not worship?  You said it both ways--but since you are a theist, I guess that is par for the course. 

Were you trying to say you like traditional stuff--or, at least, some.  My wife is like that.  She likes and appreciates some 'rites of life or passage'--like graduations, some church rituals, weddings, and most other social rituals.  I'm not so hot for them, but I do see that sometimes they have a role to play.

Well yes, many religious aren't devout.  They only attend for major life events.  My mother was like that.  She tried to avoid her own funeral though.  In orthodox Judaism, a man is required to daven 100 times per day ... basically continuously.  More than those Muslim pikers.

Grammar nazi much?   I could use technically correct jargon .. in Hebrew, but nobody here would understand.  And your dictionary definition hardly does justice to 5000 years of human cultural diversity.  Dictionaries are tools of thought control.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 05:19:55 PM by Baruch »
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2018, 11:46:33 AM »
Grammar Nazi???  Ha, ha :))))  You say you worship in one post and say you don't in another.  Split personality much? 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Mr.Obvious

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Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2018, 12:06:12 PM »
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Yes, but what about anarchists and savages ... they hold nothing sacred ;-)  And yes, don't tell me I can't rob, rape and kill people ... that is denying freedoms ;-(  Just saying, you are a statistic of one.  Your neighbors per 20th century, aren't so nice, including Belgian fascists or supporters of the Belgian Congo.  I feel unsafe being opening Jewish in the US, how much more so in Europe.

Europeans have a rather strange view of religion relative to the US.  Many of us came here to get away from the other Europeans.  Often because we wanted to practice religion our own way, not because we were sans-culottes guillotining priests.  With the tie in between religion and monarchy, in liberalizing times, it is no surprise that atheism writ large happened in Europe first.

The majority of my ancestors are Catholic, but I feel no attraction ... that is just me.  Others like my older brother, feel different about it.

I am glad you are free to be non-religious.  And I assume that isn't a cover (for anyone here) for what should be called criminal activity, in any culture.  And anti-semitism is something I see on the Internet every day.  But I wouldn't out-law it.

What an odd response.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2018, 01:19:04 PM »
Odd you say!? From Baruch!? That sounded a lot less odd than much of his previous balderdash.
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Offline Baruch

Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2018, 01:28:56 PM »
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Grammar Nazi???  Ha, ha :))))  You say you worship in one post and say you don't in another.  Split personality much?

Words were made for man, man wasn't made for words.  I can use any word I want, any way I want.  And it isn't necessarily inconsistent, just complicated.  You do the same, but I don't get upset over it.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2018, 01:32:12 PM »
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What an odd response.

Europeans don't know how Americans view them.  Americans don't know how Europeans view them.  We aren't the same, but yet are related.  Inside our own cultures, echo chamber is the norm.  For me it is fascinating ... what is it like to be French for example ... given that I am not.  Do Belgians have a spit personality?  Are they like Van Gough? (yes, he is Dutch, but that fits half of the Belgians).

People think I don't say what I mean, that I don't mean what I say.  That is hardly the case.  I can be sharp, because I don't like being dull.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2018, 01:34:30 PM »
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Odd you say!? From Baruch!? That sounded a lot less odd than much of his previous balderdash.

I will have you know, I am working hard to not lose all my hair (on my head).
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2018, 01:43:06 PM »
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Words were made for man, man wasn't made for words.  I can use any word I want, any way I want.  And it isn't necessarily inconsistent, just complicated.  You do the same, but I don't get upset over it.
Actually, words were made by man for man.  Inconsistent--that is the way you (try to) communicate--but you are a theist, so you can't help yourself.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Mr.Obvious

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Re: What do I get out of worship?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2018, 02:35:58 PM »
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Odd you say!? From Baruch!? That sounded a lot less odd than much of his previous balderdash.
Odd because nothing i said would have warranted it, not for lack of internal consitency.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

 

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