Author Topic: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey  (Read 239 times)

Online Shiranu

Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« on: October 07, 2018, 12:05:37 AM »
This is one of many times I wish I had stayed in better contact with Druken, to see just how accurate this video is. From the outside looking in, it fit's all I have seen so far... but it would be nice to have a direct source to collaborate that with. I will have short, titled summaries for certain parts if one does not wish to watch the video.

I also want to say that I, I would assume very transparently, frame it in a way that is relatable to America's current situation... because we see and understand the world based upon the part of the world we live in.




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0:00 - 2:00 - Erdogan's popularity

- Despite human rights violations, the imprisonment of over 100,000 "dissenters", installing corrupt and cronyist subordinates and being openly critical of the media and "secularlists" (Turkey's equivalent of "the left"), Erdogan has managed to win the popular vote thanks to his populism that stokes the fears of religious conservatives and his status as a savvy businessman who bolstered Turkey's economy.


2:00 - 3:50 - Ergenkon and the "Deep State"


- Targeting secularlists (labeling them the "deep state"), Erdogan used this as an excuse to delegitimise at best and arrest and try at worst political opponents, the media, intellectuals... the "elite", whom his base of religious conservatives despise.
- These conservatives have long been resentful of the "elite establishment" whom they believed were destroying their culture and their religious values. The secular intellectuals were the true enemy to Turkish identity, and further drove a wedge between the social and political classes.
- This lead to more people switching to Erdogan's side, as they viewed him as someone who was finally sticking up to the "secularists" who were the enemy, and he became someone who could do no wrong in their eyes thanks to this, his economic policies and his toughness on crime.


4:10 - 5:30 - The Gezi Park Protests and the Media's Response


- In protest of Erdogan's presidency disregarding the environment, the privatization of public spaces and services, gentrification, an estimated seven million plus Turks protested against Erdogan, with thousands being seriously injured in the resulting crackdown.
- Despite it being one of the largest protest movements in Western history, CNN Turk and other major news outlets ignored the story because it made Erdogan look bad, and this is largely because Erdogan and his party have relentlessly attempted to discredit to the press and arrested them (Turkey now has the most journalists jailed in the world).
- This has left 90% of the media being considered "Pro-Erdogan".


5:50 - 6:50 - The Purges in the Name of "National Security", "Anti-Terrorism" and Defeating the "Deep State"


- 150,000 people, following the coup attempt, were arrested by the government, with many of them being teachers, professors, educated individuals and of course just anyone who questioned the Erdogan regime.
- He was likewise given more and more political power in the name of fighting these threats.


6:55 - 9:00 - The Turkish Economy Falters and the People's Response


- Inflation and national debt have begun to balloon, and this has fired up the opposition party. However in response, Erdogan and the AKP have moved the elections forward to strike before the majority felt the effects of this.
- While Erdogan won, there are many questions over the legitimacy of the election since many of the states were controlled by Erdogan's personal appointments and loyalists.
- He also has to stay in power because he has multiple allegations against him and his family that would likely have him end up in jail without the protection the presidency offers him.


9:35 - Closing -  The Speed of this Autocracy


- In less than 20 years, Erdogan has transformed the country into a stable democracy into an "elected autocracy", and has planted very deep roots of corruption and authoritarianism into the legal system.
- By using the facade of opposition parties that "have power" (when they really don't), he has managed to brush off allegations of the country being an autocracy, but nevertheless all the party lies with the AKP and the party follows what Erdogan says.




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The United States and Turkey are two very, very different countries, but we share more in common than we have differences. It would be wise to look at the path Turkey is taking and realise that many of those "horrible" things they do are exactly the same thing the GOP (particularly the more radical right) have been working towards here in the States for years now.

We may have more fail safes in place, we may be more diverse (though Turkey is an extremely diverse country itself), and these changes may not hit us as hard or as fast as they can in Turkey, but that doesn't stop them from causing immense amount of harm. And the bigger the entity, if it does begin to fall, is much harder to slow down and does far more damage.

So much of the rhetoric used by Erdogan is the exact same rhetoric used by the radical right, even by posters here... some of it with a different name ("secularist" vs "leftists"), but others word for word ("deep state", "establishment", "fake news"). This is why it's important to call that rhetoric out any time you see it; by letting it stand you only give it legitimacy.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2018, 02:53:46 AM »
Turkey should be kicked out of NATO today.  They are are autocratic and murderous as all other Middle East nations.  Crazy too.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2018, 04:07:00 AM »
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Turkey should be kicked out of NATO today.  They are are autocratic and murderous as all other Middle East nations.  Crazy too.

I would agree, but the Dardanelles says ... no.  Geography makes them important, for over 100 years now.  If you ignore geography and choose allies based on if you like them or not ... that is pretty childish.

Shiranu - is your point, that the culture of the US is based on Central Asian pastoral imperialism?  Or that Trump will reestablish the Ottoman Sultanate in the US?

BTW - I am not anti-Turkish.  I think they are misunderstood, they make a convenient boogie-man.  That and Lawrence of Arabia totally propagandized against them.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2018, 05:07:08 AM »
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I would agree, but the Dardanelles says ... no.  Geography makes them important, for over 100 years now.  If you ignore geography and choose allies based on if you like them or not ... that is pretty childish.

Shiranu - is your point, that the culture of the US is based on Central Asian pastoral imperialism?  Or that Trump will reestablish the Ottoman Sultanate in the US?

BTW - I am not anti-Turkish.  I think they are misunderstood, they make a convenient boogie-man.  That and Lawrence of Arabia totally propagandized against them.

Only said Turkey is not NATO material...  They were close for a while but just another Mid east nuts nation now.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2018, 08:42:26 AM »
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Only said Turkey is not NATO material...  They were close for a while but just another Mid east nuts nation now.

Germany, France etc aren't Nato material either ;-)
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2018, 10:21:50 AM »
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Germany, France etc aren't Nato material either ;-)
They are the very substance or it in Europe. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2018, 11:31:04 AM »
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They are the very substance or it in Europe.

For a Franco-file or Germano-file.  I am indifferent except to the British.  And I know they are false friends.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2018, 12:33:02 PM »
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For a Franco-file or Germano-file.  I am indifferent except to the British.  And I know they are false friends.
I like a German-Franco-Brit Europe.  But all of Asia is completely messed up.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2018, 01:34:31 PM »
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I like a German-Franco-Brit Europe.  But all of Asia is completely messed up.

China is trying to make a silk road out of a sow's ear ;-)
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2018, 02:15:19 PM »
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China is trying to make a silk road out of a sow's ear ;-)

And the US made hay from the destruction of Europe after WWII.  So?  Trade control moves along and depends of goods.  The US doesn't make much these days.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2018, 02:16:49 PM »
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And the US made hay from the destruction of Europe after WWII.  So?  Trade control moves along and depends of goods.  The US doesn't make much these days.

We make weapons and trouble.  We were under tenterhooks regarding an invasion by Nato by the Warsaw Pact.  Would the W Europeans, who are mostly Socialists, fight the Warsaw Pact, or betray the US?
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2018, 02:19:19 PM »
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We make weapons and trouble.  We were under tenterhooks regarding an invasion by Nato by the Warsaw Pact.  Would the W Europeans, who are mostly Socialists, fight the Warsaw Pact, or betray the US?

I seriously doubt that the US is going to be invaded by NATO.  We have most of the armaments.  And if Europe wants to take over itself, good.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2018, 02:31:29 PM »
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I seriously doubt that the US is going to be invaded by NATO.  We have most of the armaments.  And if Europe wants to take over itself, good.

No, not invasion.  Betrayal of US forces in Europe.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2018, 02:33:18 PM »
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No, not invasion.  Betrayal of US forces in Europe.

By leaving?  Or by staying?  Either one could be bad.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Erdogan and Autocratic Turkey
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2018, 02:36:16 PM »
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By leaving?  Or by staying?  Either one could be bad.

Cold War, not today.  The French and Germans would be shooting our forces in Europe, in the back.  British socialists also.  Most of Europe is 5th columnists for Karl Marx.
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