Author Topic: The Phantom Time Hypothesis  (Read 1179 times)

Offline trdsf

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2018, 11:35:22 AM »
Stephen Fry mentioned this idea on Series J of QI; it's bollocks, of course (as is Anatoly Fomenko's You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, which posits that written history only goes back to the year 800CE and the classical Egyptian, Greek and Roman civilizations rose and fell during the Middle Ages), although it does at least get one thinking about the nature of how we relate to the passage of time socially.

I have long been of the opinion that we should mark a new Year Zero.  In my more pessimistic moods I would restart counting at July 16, 1945 (detonation of the Trinity device).  In my more optimistic ones October 4, 1957 (launch of Sputnik I); April 12, 1961 (flight of Yuri Gagarin); or July 21, 1969 (Armstrong and Aldrin walk on the moon).  Other alternatives include the start of the Industrial Revolution (and there are plenty of options for setting that date), or whatever's finally settled on as the start of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.

Frequent resetting of the base year is not uncommon, really.  Japanese coins are dated not with the common year of issue, but with the regnal year of the emperor, and coins of the Vatican (pre-Euro, at least) sometimes were also dated by the regnal year of the pontiff.  Iranian coins changed their dating four times last century -- the standard Islamic Lunar calendar (AH - Anno Hegira) until 1925, Solar Hegira (S.H.) dating from 1925-1976, Monarchial System (M.S.) setting 0 as the year of Cyrus the Great's accession (559BCE) from 1977-1978, and then back to A.H. in 1979 with the Islamic Revolution.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2018, 01:16:21 PM »
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Don't you see?!

It means we were wrong for laughing at Christians when Jesus failed to show up in the year 2000.
He'll be here in 2297!
Repent!
Are we going to have to put up with another damned Y2K!?

;-)
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"Thinking, analyzing, inventing are not anomalous acts; they are the normal respiration of the intelligence."
Jorge Louis Borges, in Pierre Menard

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2018, 01:19:23 PM »
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I propose a new calendar where the current moment remains "year zero" at all times.  Today, tomorrow, next week is year zero, day zero, and zero seconds.  Historical dates that measure how long ago would change daily, so we would always know exactly how long ago that date was.  This might possibly resolve the Theory of Relativity's conflict with Quantum Mechanics, because a light year would be relative and distances would change relative to something else.  I'm getting confused.  I no longer know if I'm thinking outside the box or coloring outside the lines, but I think I may be onto something.
Yeah, you may be on something, alright!

;-)
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"Thinking, analyzing, inventing are not anomalous acts; they are the normal respiration of the intelligence."
Jorge Louis Borges, in Pierre Menard

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2018, 02:01:23 AM »
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Constant math required. Fuck that shit.

There is some logic to "years ago" as a measurement.  We have so many references to  things like "40,000 Years ago" and eventually those dates will, well, get "out of date".

Besides, measuring our years from the various dates of birth of just one particular (alleged) religious figure seems like supporting that particular theism.  We could do better.  The difficulty would be deciding on a 0 year.  At least, though, having a 0 year would simplify the century-ending argument.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2018, 01:38:00 PM »
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Constant math required. Fuck that shit.
Nah, I'm sure someone would develop an app for that.
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"Thinking, analyzing, inventing are not anomalous acts; they are the normal respiration of the intelligence."
Jorge Louis Borges, in Pierre Menard

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2018, 01:42:09 PM »
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Nah, I'm sure someone would develop an app for that.

Develope that app!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Sal1981

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2018, 11:41:05 AM »
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Stephen Fry mentioned this idea on Series J of QI; it's bollocks, of course (as is Anatoly Fomenko's You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, which posits that written history only goes back to the year 800CE and the classical Egyptian, Greek and Roman civilizations rose and fell during the Middle Ages), although it does at least get one thinking about the nature of how we relate to the passage of time socially.

I have long been of the opinion that we should mark a new Year Zero.  In my more pessimistic moods I would restart counting at July 16, 1945 (detonation of the Trinity device).  In my more optimistic ones October 4, 1957 (launch of Sputnik I); April 12, 1961 (flight of Yuri Gagarin); or July 21, 1969 (Armstrong and Aldrin walk on the moon).  Other alternatives include the start of the Industrial Revolution (and there are plenty of options for setting that date), or whatever's finally settled on as the start of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.

Frequent resetting of the base year is not uncommon, really.  Japanese coins are dated not with the common year of issue, but with the regnal year of the emperor, and coins of the Vatican (pre-Euro, at least) sometimes were also dated by the regnal year of the pontiff.  Iranian coins changed their dating four times last century -- the standard Islamic Lunar calendar (AH - Anno Hegira) until 1925, Solar Hegira (S.H.) dating from 1925-1976, Monarchial System (M.S.) setting 0 as the year of Cyrus the Great's accession (559BCE) from 1977-1978, and then back to A.H. in 1979 with the Islamic Revolution.
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"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline trdsf

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2018, 12:52:32 PM »
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I've seen that proposal before.  I don't have a problem with it, in principle.  The problem is there's no real-world deadline (at least not for another 7981 years) like the Y2K issue to force all systems be updated to handle more than a four-digit year field.

Of course, using 64-bit Unix time takes us all the way out to the year 2,147,485,547 and that's enough for any reasonable purposes.  Statistically by that time there will have been several extinction-level asteroid impacts on Earth, and even if that doesn't happen, the sun will be 10% more luminous after just another billion years and that's enough to evaporate the oceans.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2018, 01:35:24 PM »
Yeah, that's when the real global warming will happen! By then we'll either be already extinct or we'll be living elsewhere.
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"Thinking, analyzing, inventing are not anomalous acts; they are the normal respiration of the intelligence."
Jorge Louis Borges, in Pierre Menard

Offline Baruch

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2018, 07:42:03 PM »
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Yeah, that's when the real global warming will happen! By then we'll either be already extinct or we'll be living elsewhere.

No afterlife for atheists.  So definitely extinct.  Y'all aren't going anywhere, the rate Elon Musk is disintegrating.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline trdsf

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2018, 09:18:49 PM »
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Yeah, that's when the real global warming will happen! By then we'll either be already extinct or we'll be living elsewhere.
I would like to hope that both -- we ought to have evolved into something definitely not homo sapiens by then.
Sir Terry Pratchett, on being told about the theory that the universe is a computer simulation: "If we all get out and in again, would it start to work properly this time?"

Offline Baruch

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2018, 02:41:11 AM »
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I would like to hope that both -- we ought to have evolved into something definitely not homo sapiens by then.

Not everything is progress.  There is also regress.  Planet of the Apes style ... even a cave man can do it.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2018, 07:27:21 AM »
 Nobody could write a history of anything.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2018, 10:35:01 AM »
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I would like to hope that both -- we ought to have evolved into something definitely not homo sapiens by then.
I read someplace, and I can't remember the percentage, but it's mind bogglingly high.  Something like 99.9% of all species that ever existed have gone extinct.  Animals too bizarre to imagine are kaput.  What the thing didn't say is that all species are constantly evolving.  It's just that for all practical purposes, nothing evolves out of the species stage.  If you look at it statistically, our chances for survival are nothing short of dismal, even if we don't turn out to be the engineers of our own extinction.

Depending on when you arbitrarily set the beginning of mankind, we could say that hundreds of thousands of years of evolution led to something so specifically well adapted to our current environment.  And it was just all a waste of perfectly good DNA.

Offline Baruch

Re: The Phantom Time Hypothesis
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2018, 01:04:19 PM »
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Nobody could write a history of anything.

"anything" = too broad a topic
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

 

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