Author Topic: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms  (Read 651 times)

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2018, 01:20:27 PM »
A football coach, huh? Was he also the math teacher? That's usually who teaches math, at least where I grew up. They were pretty good at it, though.
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Offline SGOS

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2018, 01:51:39 PM »
He was a PE teacher, which seems like a more typical stereotype.

Online Baruch

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2018, 02:32:48 PM »
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He was a PE teacher, which seems like a more typical stereotype.

How come PE teachers are stereotypically over-weight?
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Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2018, 02:43:26 PM »
I didn't even know puppets could have sex.

TBH, I thought it was kind of a reach that they thought Bert and Ernie were gay. Do these people think men that room together in an apartment are gay?
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Offline GSOgymrat

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2018, 02:47:45 PM »
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How come PE teachers are stereotypically over-weight?

Because they feed off the sweat and misery of their students.
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Online Shiranu

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2018, 03:06:12 PM »
Quote
TBH, I thought it was kind of a reach that they thought Bert and Ernie were gay. Do these people think men that room together in an apartment are gay?

Since their writer wrote them with his relationship as the model, I don't see where the stretch is.
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Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2018, 03:26:29 PM »
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Since their writer wrote them with his relationship as the model, I don't see where the stretch is.
interesting, using personal experiences as a basis for a creative project... who'dathunk that?

Yes. It's still a reach, despite him using his relationship with his wife.
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Offline the_antithesis

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2018, 03:31:58 PM »
The problem I have with topics like this is that people tend to stop reading Frank Oz's original post at the third sentence when I think the most important thing was in the seventh.

Online Shiranu

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2018, 05:11:10 PM »
Quote
Yes. It's still a reach, despite him using his relationship with his wife.

*His husband, considering the writer in question wrote them based on his relationship with his late husband.

Quote
The problem I have with topics like this is that people tend to stop reading Frank Oz's original post at the third sentence when I think the most important thing was in the seventh.

Probably because his entire position is contradictory.

1. Muppets have no sexuality according to them. Fine, I am actually okay with that... except we have several straight characters who have character-defining traits of sexuality (Notably, Kermit and Ms. Piggy). It's only when it comes to the LGBT+ community that suddenly muppets don't have a sexuality, and that's a problem.

2."Of course." is dismissive as fuck, particularly when he is not the only one who wrote for the characters. It is obviously not "of course" because of how many people interpreted it that way, including one of the character's writers who wrote it to appear that way.


3. Maybe the seventh sentence was the most important part, but not for the reason you think. Yes, humanity is more than sexuality... but at the same time, sexuality is a fundamental aspect of humanity. This forum, of all places, discounting sexuality is absolutely mindboggling to me given how many atheists hold the idea of, "The only meaning of life is to procreate or not.".


 Acknowledging sexuality =/= making it all about sexuality.


Reading back on it, it's not just dismissive of an entire community who felt they had a healthy representation in one of the more wholesome shows on television, but it also reinforces the prudish idea that sexuality is not a key component of the human experience.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 05:27:40 PM by Shiranu »
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Online Shiranu

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2018, 05:21:42 PM »
And in retort to the idea that muppets don't have sexuality or relationships...

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Also, Frank Oz has both apologized for the "Of Course" remark as well as said this...


Quote
"But I did learn something from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. Although it doesn't matter to me if someone is gay or viewed as gay, I learned it does matter to a great many people who feel they are not represented enough. The Tweet discussion was worth it for me to just learn that."

Even he admits that there is legitimacy to the argument being brought up, even if he doesn't have a dog in that fight, and frankly I am happy enough with that. If yall want to keep on arguing over it, have fun.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 05:28:21 PM by Shiranu »
I've Got Love, Fuck Your Money.

Don't feed the douche-trolls.

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2018, 07:38:34 PM »
Why would anyone think that someone whose job requires a man's arm stuck up them to the elbow would necessarily be gay? They could be real troopers. Hard to tell.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
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Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2018, 07:55:45 PM »
Here we go again, Shiranu vs the world in this episode of "this is why I am the most virtuous"
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Online Baruch

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2018, 08:13:28 PM »
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Here we go again, Shiranu vs the world in this episode of "this is why I am the most virtuous"

As I have told Shiranu before, aside from being an atheist, he would make a typical Franciscan monk.
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Offline Munch

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2018, 09:02:21 PM »
I've learned a lot from watching him, such as just how deep someone can be in their social and political ideology the same as a religious person can be deep in their religious one.

I'm gay and have read some gay authors who make the world into a gay power fantasy of gays being the main population, and while those had some hot implications, I'm also a realist and know such a thing would be unsustainable since their be no more children outside of sperm donars for the lesbians on their side of the planet.

As such, I don't feel its needed to have homosexuality forced on characters where they weren't before (from a proper narrative, in fan fiction and artwork its fine), such as how they recently made Iceman from x-men come out after 50 years, and he's just totally awesome and fabulous now, completely uprooting his character. Rather then making new characters who are gay and building on them, some people get the bright idea to make a preexisting character gay.

And yes, there are many cases of people who have been in the closet for years not coming out, which could lead to good storytelling. But not when its a blatantly obvious forced plothole for diversity points, if it can't be written naturally, then it shouldn't as well. A good example is Willow from buffy the vampire slayer, who came out later on in the series at what felt like a natural thing over time. Not just going from average joe dating women one day to jack from will and grace the next.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 09:11:37 PM by Munch »

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, creator Frank Oz confirms
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2018, 09:14:40 PM »
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How come PE teachers are stereotypically over-weight?


 

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