Author Topic: Captain Marvel  (Read 277 times)

Offline Munch

Captain Marvel
« on: September 20, 2018, 03:44:36 PM »
Okay, this one needs to be talked about.

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So the trailer is out, kinda, showing some of what to expect from the movie. Obviously this has been hinted at by the end of infinity war, that she would be appearing.

My thoughts on ms marvel are pretty average. I read the comics, the avengers, where was often appeared. I first remembered her from when she appeared on the x-men animated series with how rogue stole her powers from her. And she appears on avengers earth mightiest heroes.

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I always thought of her as being a wonder woman type who could hold her own and a powerhouse, though she was never really a character I felt invested in, I didn't mind her when she appeared.

However, in recent years in marvel comics, they took this character, one being a strong, independent soldier type, and made her into a full sjw character.

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Now to be fair, they didn't make it obvious at first, they only really changed her design from a feminine looking character to more of a tom boy, but this isn't whatever bothered me, it was just a design change. It was more the granule progression of making her from the strong soldier superhero simply about fighting the bad guys, to slowly becoming more about identity politics, like a lot of marvel ended up doing in the last 10 years, hence her redesign.

The problem I'm seeing right now, is how certain media outlets are starting to already trying to pin the upcoming movies as 'THE FIRST EVER ALL WOMAN CAST OF STRONG INDEPENDENT WOMEN!', which is no surprise given how marvel comics themselves tried to push her into being this way in the comics. Its because of marvel comics identity politics that I stopped reading them and stuck with the movies, because at least the directors with these movies stuck with their original concepts of the characters.



Why is her being female such an important facet of her character? Why can't it just be that she's a strong character. I don't recall it being what mattered with wonder woman.

This is what has me worried, but in a bigger way then just one movie. It has me concerned about the direction the marvel cinematic universe will go it, if they start making their movie products into being as bad as the comics books in the last 10 years.

The movies have been box office gold, mostly, because the writers and directors stuck with keeping the characters close to their original selves. Even when they changed the dynamic of thor to be slightly more comical, they still kept the premise of who he was as a character.

I can only hope they have the sense to do the same with ms/captain marvel and keep her original comic book character as the main focus, and not make this the start of social justice marvel in the movies (and yeah, social justice marvel is a thing).

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2018, 03:59:05 PM »
"Mason Weaver is a girl!"

"Last time I checked."
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline GSOgymrat

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2018, 04:24:16 PM »
I don't have your aversion to social justice but when movies get too preachy it can detract from the experience. Wonder Woman as a major superhero movie with a female lead was considered a big deal by many people. It was in development a long time and could have easily been a train wreck. Now it is Marvel's turn to have a female superhero carry a movie and expectations are high, e.g. your concerns regarding feminist themes. I will be going to see it, I've seen all the Marvel movies and Netflix series, and I'll just go in with an open mind. I avoid watching trailers or reading reviews prior to seeing Marvel movies because I like to go in without expectations.
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline Sal1981

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2018, 04:33:05 PM »
I literally know nothing about Captain Marvel. I didn't even know what that symbol was at the end of the last Avenger movie, so her history or whatnot has no bearing for me. I just hope they don't  cater to the SJW types, but show an interesting story to Captain Marvel.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline Munch

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2018, 04:36:35 PM »
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I don't have your aversion to social justice but when movies get too preachy it can detract from the experience. Wonder Woman as a major superhero movie with a female lead was considered a big deal by many people. It was in development a long time and could have easily been a train wreck. Now it is Marvel's turn to have a female superhero carry a movie and expectations are high, e.g. your concerns regarding feminist themes. I will be going to see it, I've seen all the Marvel movies and Netflix series, and I'll just go in with an open mind. I avoid watching trailers or reading reviews prior to seeing Marvel movies because I like to go in without expectations.

What I liked about wonder woman, is it kept close enough to her original character. She's one of the justice leagues strongest members and has always been about solid virtues like love and peace and overcoming adversity, without being preachy, her character in the justice league animated series was the best version of that.

You can make strong female characters everyone can look up to, like I would someone like her, without them needing to emasculate the other gender to have that 'empowerment'.

I can only hope they follow in kind with ms/captain marvel

Offline GSOgymrat

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2018, 04:43:22 PM »
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I literally know nothing about Captain Marvel. I didn't even know what that symbol was at the end of the last Avenger movie, so her history or whatnot has no bearing for me. I just hope they don't  cater to the SJW types, but show an interesting story to Captain Marvel.

I know about Carol Danvers through the X-Men but not other comic books. I didn't find her that interesting to be honest.

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What I liked about wonder woman, is it kept close enough to her original character. She's one of the justice leagues strongest members and has always been about solid virtues like love and peace and overcoming adversity, without being preachy, her character in the justice league animated series was the best version of that.

You can make strong female characters everyone can look up to, like I would someone like her, without them needing to emasculate the other gender to have that 'empowerment'.

I can only hope they follow in kind with ms/captain marvel

Same here. One reason I loved Wonder Woman is she is a humanist. She isn't the Dark Knight.
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2018, 05:50:36 PM »
Thing is this isn't the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd captain marvel this is the dead last that's what pissing m off.

Online Baruch

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2018, 07:21:11 PM »
We once had a young Jewish woman student military pilot in our synagogue.  She could kick all your asses ;-)

I don't mind heroes, but I agree with Munch, leave out the damn R-D identity politics.
שלום

Offline Munch

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2018, 09:02:29 PM »
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We once had a young Jewish woman student military pilot in our synagogue.  She could kick all your asses ;-)

I don't mind heroes, but I agree with Munch, leave out the damn R-D identity politics.

I'm guessing she didn't preach about how great she was to everyone around her either. Actions more then words.




Online Baruch

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2018, 10:02:31 PM »
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I'm guessing she didn't preach about how great she was to everyone around her either. Actions more then words.

There are heroes all around us.  You could be one.  Just don't reveal your secret identity!
שלום

Offline SGOS

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2018, 10:23:59 PM »
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What I liked about wonder woman, is it kept close enough to her original character. She's one of the justice leagues strongest members and has always been about solid virtues like love and peace and overcoming adversity
I did looked forward to Wonderwoman, but I didn't expect to be so delightfully surprised.  She has an extraordinarily powerful presence, and complements the rest of the DC characters well.  One of my favorite scenes in Justice League involves her first appearance along side Superman and Batman, who are both engaged with a particularly difficult enemy.  Wonderwoman shows up unexpectedly and clobbers the opponent with a mighty assault while Superman and Batman are catching their breath.  They are both taken aback by a woman delivering such a smashing blow.  Superman turns to Batman and asks with astonishment, "Is she with you?" And Batman replies, "No, I thought she was with you."

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2018, 11:09:34 PM »
From what I can tell, we have no reason to fear that the SJW era of Marvel comics will bleed into the movie. Just look at her design. It's based on her iconic, original appearance, not her more recent redesign. That just goes to show which era of comics the directors have been studying for reference. I actually was more concerned with the Wonder Woman movie, since the character seemed to be a confusingly mixed bag of feminism and male fantasy. From what I've heard, though, the Wonder Woman movie was pretty tame with its feminist undertones, to the point that it apparently irritated SJWs. If DC can do a movie about a female superhero right, then Marvel sure as hell can.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2018, 11:16:27 PM »
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I did looked forward to Wonderwoman, but I didn't expect to be so delightfully surprised.  She has an extraordinarily powerful presence, and complements the rest of the DC characters well.  One of my favorite scenes in Justice League involves her first appearance along side Superman and Batman, who are both engaged with a particularly difficult enemy.  Wonderwoman shows up unexpectedly and clobbers the opponent with a mighty assault while Superman and Batman are catching their breath.  They are both taken aback by a woman delivering such a smashing blow.  Superman turns to Batman and asks with astonishment, "Is she with you?" And Batman replies, "No, I thought she was with you."

Eh, I was really not a big fan of that scene. For me, it only highlighted how underdeveloped Wonder Woman was as a character at that point. Of course, she got her own movie later, but at the time, she was unknown to us. In a movie called Batman VS Superman, no less. It'd be like if in Infinity War, Captain Marvel just suddenly dropped out of the sky and blasted Thanos a mile away. I could just imagine Captain America saying, "That's for the assist. Good work. By the way, who the heck are you?"
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2018, 07:36:09 AM »
I just watched part of the first Fast and Furious movie, long enough to notice Gal Gadot was in it, playing a Latina.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Shiranu

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2018, 08:06:05 AM »
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I just watched part of the first Fast and Furious movie, long enough to notice Gal Gadot was in it, playing a Latina.

She was in it, but her characters name was Yashar... I don't think she was Latina...
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