Author Topic: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts  (Read 361 times)

Offline pr126

Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« on: September 19, 2018, 11:55:29 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login is an ex Muslim from Iran, living in America

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Quote
In the case of Islam, there is no ambiguity at all. The mosque and the state were one and the same from the very start. During his lifetime, Muhammad embodied in his person all three branches of worldly secular governance — the legislative, the judiciary and the executive — as well as the religious domain. As a messenger of Allah, he transmitted Allah’s laws, adjudicated according to those laws, and implemented Allah’s design. He also prescribed a set of religious instructions for the spiritual life of the faithful.

Radical Islam

As I have many time stated, there is no such thing as “radical Islam.” I have refused to accept several organizations that seek to combat or expose the antics of “radical” or “extreme” Islam, because I know that it is not extremism that is causing the violence…it’s mainstream, typical, normal, traditional, specified, canonical Islam.

Islam is an out-of-control fire, and the jihadists are its arsonists. The generality of Muslims do their part by spreading throughout the world and setting up the conditions that would welcome the arsonists, feed and shelter them, and support them in igniting the Islamic fire.

It is difficult for a European to understand how Americans fail to take Islam seriously.
They are more afraid of Christian Theocracy than Islam, contrary to all evidence available to them.










 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 11:58:34 AM by pr126 »
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Cognitive-dissonance is fighting for women's rights and LBGT rights while defending Islam and Muslims against "Islamophobia".

Offline Cavebear

Re: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2018, 12:00:45 PM »
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login is an ex Muslim from Iran, living in America

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It is difficult for a European to understand how Americans fail to take Islam seriously.
They are more afraid of Christian Theocracy than Islam, contrary to all evidence available to them.

I can't see much difference between those guys and Christian.  Or Hindus.  Or Buddhists...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline pr126

Re: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2018, 12:18:00 PM »
I am not surprised.

But how about this?

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Can you see any difference at all?

Not mentioning the treatment of women, non-Muslims, Child marriages, FGM, slavery?

« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 12:20:14 PM by pr126 »
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Cognitive-dissonance is fighting for women's rights and LBGT rights while defending Islam and Muslims against "Islamophobia".

Offline Cavebear

Re: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 12:27:38 PM »
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I am not surprised.

But how about this?

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Can you see any difference at all?

I didn't say they weren't murderous lunatics.  Just that all other religions kill outsiders with equal hatred.  In the US, Christians would kill those not of their specific belief to the last jot and tittle if not constrained by force of law.  I mean, admit it, they try to do that is spite of secular police forces all the time.   The history of Europe is mostly about christians trying to wipe each other off the face of the globe.  If it weren't for secular forces, the catholics and the protestants would be trying to make each other extinct in the US today.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 01:00:06 PM »
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I didn't say they weren't murderous lunatics.  Just that all other religions kill outsiders with equal hatred.  In the US, Christians would kill those not of their specific belief to the last jot and tittle if not constrained by force of law.  I mean, admit it, they try to do that is spite of secular police forces all the time.   The history of Europe is mostly about christians trying to wipe each other off the face of the globe.  If it weren't for secular forces, the catholics and the protestants would be trying to make each other extinct in the US today.

Want self fulfillment?  Just go around promoting Christian genocide against non-Christians.  Jewish genocide against non-Jews etc.

Or are you just progressively paranoid?  Yes, there are some Muslims who want to kill you, some Christians, some Jews etc.  Therefore ...
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2018, 10:40:34 PM »
Okay, first of all, you seem to lack understanding about what the words "extremists" and "moderates" mean. Extremists are people who take their religion to the extreme. In other words, they don't allow things like social norms, moral compasses, or logic to get in the way of their faith. They believe what their holy books tell them, and act accordingly. Moderates, on the other hand, moderate their faith with the current social norms, etc. For example, most Christians are moderates because they do not believe even half of what the Bible says, they only believe out of tradition, and they don't center their moral frameworks on the Bible. Someone like Ted Cruz, however, while not quite the level of crazy to be labelled an extremist, is a total douchebag who uses his religion as a weapon for controlling others and uses it as a basis for his positions on government policies.

And no, most Muslims are not extremists. And, as has been pointed out to you countless times, they don't have power in America. Just because we don't fear the Muslim boogieman doesn't mean we're a fan of Islam either. Criticize the religion all you want, but stop being so stupid about it. Christians are the ones with a choke hold on America right now. You can't even get elected into office if you publicly identify as anything other than Christian. Sometime down the line, the policies created by Right Wing Christians can very well lead to problems if Muslims begin to outnumber Christians, but it's the Christians who are the problem right now. I can't speak for anyone in Europe, but I am in no imminent danger from Muslims.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline pr126

Re: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2018, 11:03:53 PM »
Quote
Extremists are people who take their religion to the extreme.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login the Islamic law is extreme?

Yes, it is. And Muslims want to spread it all over the world. By force if necessary.
That is the Islamic command of Allah that all Muslims must follow.
That is normative, mainstream Islam. Not extreme. Just Islam.

However, the problem is, that no politician in power anywhere in the world would say that Islam the ideology (religion) is extreme, violent, divisive, bigoted, racist, inhuman.
It commands eternal war on the infidel.

All you hear is Islam is peace.
The world is in fear of Islam.
It has a name. Islamophobia. The [irrational] fear of Islam, not Muslims.


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« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 11:26:15 PM by pr126 »
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Cognitive-dissonance is fighting for women's rights and LBGT rights while defending Islam and Muslims against "Islamophobia".

Re: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2018, 12:00:49 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login the Islamic law is extreme?

Is Levitical law extreme?

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Yes, it is. And Muslims want to spread it all over the world. By force if necessary.
That is the Islamic command of Allah that all Muslims must follow.
That is normative, mainstream Islam. Not extreme. Just Islam.

Yeah, you didn't read my response at all did you? You just skim just enough to get a general idea of what it is you want to tell me I'm wrong about. It's extremism if the believer is doesn't filter their holy text via social norms, a personal sense of right and wrong, or logic. If Christians followed the law of their prophets, they would be killing homosexuals rather than trying to go through the legal system to take away their ability to marry.

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However, the problem is, that no politician in power anywhere in the world would say that Islam the ideology (religion) is extreme, violent, divisive, bigoted, racist, inhuman.

You mean like Christian Republicans? ...Ironically the ones who are also accusing Muslims of the same shit. Seriously, I know you've seen Fox News. You've shared it as a source before. You know full well that politicians do accuse Muslims of being all of those things.

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It commands eternal war on the infidel.

All you hear is Islam is peace.

I've never said that, and it isn't anything special for a religious group to claim to be for peace while slaughtering their competition. Christianity has a rich history of that, prior to being tempered by secular law.

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The world is in fear of Islam.
It has a name. Islamophobia. The [irrational] fear of Islam, not Muslims.


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« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 12:11:54 AM by Blackleaf »
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Baruch

Re: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2018, 02:30:30 AM »
Yes, Levitical law is extreme ... for ancient Jews.  We haven't followed this for over 1800 years.  Modern Israel is a secular state.
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline pr126

Re: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2018, 04:33:38 AM »
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Yes, Levitical law is extreme ... for ancient Jews.  We haven't followed this for over 1800 years.  Modern Israel is a secular state.

Come on, it is not a bad tu quoque. Bit desperate, but hey.

And the cookie-cut response always is: "but Christianity is the same, if not worse".
You can bet the farm on that.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 04:38:50 AM by pr126 »
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Cognitive-dissonance is fighting for women's rights and LBGT rights while defending Islam and Muslims against "Islamophobia".

Offline pr126

Re: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2018, 04:44:10 AM »
Blackleaf wrote:
Quote
You know full well that politicians do accuse Muslims of being all of those things.
Indeed, some do accuse Muslims.

But they never ever accuse the ideology that makes them do it, even when the jihadist shouts from the rooftops that they are following Muhammad and the Quran.
That is taboo.
You cannot criticize, examine, question the religion of peace TM in public.

The MSM narrative states that the "extremist" Muslims are following a violent version of Islam, which implies that there is a moderate peaceful version or the Quran exist.

This is not the case. One Quran, one Islam.

Yes, there are non-violent verses but they were You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login(annulled) by the later violent verses.
There are Meccan and Medinan suras.
Sura 9 is the last and overrides, annul all previous commands.
Read sura 9. This is the real Islam.

But if violent Islam is only followed by a few "extremist", why do the Muslim clergy all over the world (imams, ayatollas) preach war, hate and violence against infidels?
Surely they must know which is the "Real Islam"?

And why are the billion plus moderate Muslims silent?

 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 10:18:23 AM by pr126 »
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their free will."
 - Joseph Goebbels

Cognitive-dissonance is fighting for women's rights and LBGT rights while defending Islam and Muslims against "Islamophobia".

Offline Cavebear

Re: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2018, 07:02:40 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login the Islamic law is extreme?

Yes, it is. And Muslims want to spread it all over the world. By force if necessary.
That is the Islamic command of Allah that all Muslims must follow.
That is normative, mainstream Islam. Not extreme. Just Islam.

However, the problem is, that no politician in power anywhere in the world would say that Islam the ideology (religion) is extreme, violent, divisive, bigoted, racist, inhuman.
It commands eternal war on the infidel.

All you hear is Islam is peace.
The world is in fear of Islam.
It has a name. Islamophobia. The [irrational] fear of Islam, not Muslims.

I will raise my hand.  But only because all theists are nuts, moderate or not. 

And BTW STOP keep posting that same old video.  Once was enough.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Ethereal Faith vs. Observable Facts
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2018, 07:14:03 AM »
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I will raise my hand.  But only because all theists are nuts, moderate or not. 

And BTW STOP keep posting that same old video.  Once was enough.

You hurt pr126's feelings, he can have you arrested under British law (not EU law, soon).  Mr Obvious will remain in the EU ... quake in fear of his sicking Inspector Cluseau on you.
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

 

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