Atheist cant can get citizenship without joining church.

[Brian37]

http://www.christianpost.com/news/us-im ... ber-98365/

[Jason78]

It makes sense.  America is a Christian Nation after all.

[Plu]

It's not "move to"; she's lived in the US for 30 years. She's being denied citizenship over this. Which is really stupid, of course.

[WitchSabrina]

She can prove her "against arms" manifesto using a church body to do it - that's all.  Spiritual and no violence whatsoever? I'm guessing an earth-based spiritual path she follows.  Probably no official church body.

What is really sad is that apparently the United States will not accept someone as a citizen unless they are willing to kill if necessary.

[Plu]

She can prove her "against arms" manifesto using a church body to do it - that's all.

So basically only a church has the authority to tell a government official that something is valid?

You'd think that'd break some kind of rule...

[WitchSabrina]

She can prove her "against arms" manifesto using a church body to do it - that's all.

So basically only a church has the authority to tell a government official that something is valid?

You'd think that'd break some kind of rule...

You'd think - right?
Now here's the twister.   It takes nearly Nothing to establish a church.  It's a document form you get from your local county office.  You collect 10-20 names and you file with a church name.  You have to write a paragraph stating your manifesto as a church body (aka - what do you believe........ what do you do).  And presto - hey - you're a church.
My address used to be Bird Street and my church was Bird Street Church[1]  (wiccan).  ::shrug::
I can't believe this woman's story is in the news quite frankly.   Unless she's a hermit and knows No One - all she had to do was find a church like mine where in the description it reads "against violence"  and they'd have to accept it.







[spoil:3w2xnst8][1]  I made a church so I could be available for weddings, christenings and funerals.[/spoil:3w2xnst8]

[Brian37]

yea meaning she can get kicked out.

[WitchSabrina]

yea meaning she can get kicked out.

Citizenship is optional based on the behavior - right?  All countries have the right to determine what constitutes a proper citizen.
I'm not saying 'taking up arms to defend the United States' is necessary for 100% of it's citizens, myself.  Personally, I don't think that's necessary.

[Brian37]

She can prove her "against arms" manifesto using a church body to do it - that's all.

So basically only a church has the authority to tell a government official that something is valid?

You'd think that'd break some kind of rule...

You'd think - right?
Now here's the twister.   It takes nearly Nothing to establish a church.  It's a document form you get from your local county office.  You collect 10-20 names and you file with a church name.  You have to write a paragraph stating your manifesto as a church body (aka - what do you believe........ what do you do).  And presto - hey - you're a church.
My address used to be Bird Street and my church was Bird Street Church[1]  (wiccan).  ::shrug::
I can't believe this woman's story is in the news quite frankly.   Unless she's a hermit and knows No One - all she had to do was find a church like mine where in the description it reads "against violence"  and they'd have to accept it.







[spoil:1afuldfg][1]  I made a church so I could be available for weddings, christenings and funerals.[/spoil:1afuldfg]

No, she shouldn't have to explain herself to anyone. She shouldn't have to lie to anyone or fake anything.

[WitchSabrina]

No, she shouldn't have to explain herself to anyone. She shouldn't have to lie to anyone or fake anything.

No I agree with you.  But if that's one of the stipulations to American Citizenship (must be age based - right?) - then there ya go.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

What the fucking fuck? This is the biggest piece of bullshit I've seen in a while. Unless I'm religious I can't have a moral objection to violence according to the Department of Homeland Security? FUCK YOU!

Seriously, is it that hard to think that someone may have a major problem with killing another human being? Fucking hell.

[WitchSabrina]

What the fucking fuck? This is the biggest piece of bullshit I've seen in a while. Unless I'm religious I can't have a moral objection to violence according to the Department of Homeland Security? FUCK YOU!

Seriously, is it that hard to think that someone may have a major problem with killing another human being? Fucking hell.

I understand your outrage - that was my initial reaction too.  But then I thought about it........ and it seems that part of American citizenship is agreement to protect America (aka take up arms against enemies).  While I don't think it's necessary for all of our citizens to agree to take up arms (to me that's why we have a military)..... but "to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic"   has been the American *credo* [1] for quite a long time.
Using "religion" as an excuse to Not uphold certain rules is also an old standby.  

I might not agree with these things - but I do understand how and why they work as they do.


[1]  word chosen on purpose

[The Skeletal Atheist]

What the fucking fuck? This is the biggest piece of bullshit I've seen in a while. Unless I'm religious I can't have a moral objection to violence according to the Department of Homeland Security? FUCK YOU!

Seriously, is it that hard to think that someone may have a major problem with killing another human being? Fucking hell.

I understand your outrage - that was my initial reaction too.  But then I thought about it........ and it seems that part of American citizenship is agreement to protect America (aka take up arms against enemies).  While I don't think it's necessary for all of our citizens to agree to take up arms (to me that's why we have a military)..... but "to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic"   has been the American *credo* [1] for quite a long time.
Using "religion" as an excuse to Not uphold certain rules is also an old standby.  

I might not agree with these things - but I do understand how and why they work as they do.


[1]  word chosen on purpose

Yeah, but the point is that if a religious objection is valid reason to exempt that part, then a strongly held secular moral conviction should be a good reason as well. "It's against my religion" shouldn't be a catchphrase for getting out of civic duty, and in cases where it is a valid reason then secular convictions must be respected as well.

It's not a simple manner of "disagreement", it's a blatant double standard, and it's blatant discrimination in a way that goes against the equality clause in the Fourteenth Amendment. Basically, it's fucking illegal.

[WitchSabrina]

What the fucking fuck? This is the biggest piece of bullshit I've seen in a while. Unless I'm religious I can't have a moral objection to violence according to the Department of Homeland Security? FUCK YOU!

Seriously, is it that hard to think that someone may have a major problem with killing another human being? Fucking hell.

I understand your outrage - that was my initial reaction too.  But then I thought about it........ and it seems that part of American citizenship is agreement to protect America (aka take up arms against enemies).  While I don't think it's necessary for all of our citizens to agree to take up arms (to me that's why we have a military)..... but "to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic"   has been the American *credo* [1] for quite a long time.
Using "religion" as an excuse to Not uphold certain rules is also an old standby.  

I might not agree with these things - but I do understand how and why they work as they do.


[1]  word chosen on purpose

Yeah, but the point is that if a religious objection is valid reason to exempt that part, then a strongly held secular moral conviction should be a good reason as well. "It's against my religion" shouldn't be a catchphrase for getting out of civic duty, and in cases where it is a valid reason then secular convictions must be respected as well.

It's not a simple manner of "disagreement", it's a blatant double standard, and it's blatant discrimination in a way that goes against the equality clause in the Fourteenth Amendment. Basically, it's fucking illegal.

I agree with you.

[SGOS]

She can prove her "against arms" manifesto using a church body to do it - that's all.

So basically only a church has the authority to tell a government official that something is valid?

You'd think that'd break some kind of rule...

During times of crisis, like when the government doesn't believe an old lady is sincere about not wanting to kill the government's enemies, it is sometimes necessary to seek the counsel of a Christian church to know what to do with her.  Secular or not, you know that you can always believe a church, if it's a Christian church.