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Black Superman..

Started by Munch, September 17, 2018, 10:31:33 AM

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Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 09:21:21 AM
Just like god, eh?? Or Jesus?? Of course.

You like your fiction, I like my fiction.  And yes, superheroes are exactly what ancient pagans, would have for deities if they were here right now.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on September 20, 2018, 12:08:07 PM
You like your fiction, I like my fiction.  And yes, superheroes are exactly what ancient pagans, would have for deities if they were here right now.
I quite agree.  And as long as you don't try to force your fiction on me--or claim it is not fiction--that works for me.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Draconic Aiur

Quote from: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
I quite agree.  And as long as you don't try to force your fiction on me--or claim it is not fiction--that works for me.

Uh duh it is fiction but it's historical fantasy we love

Mike Cl

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on September 20, 2018, 01:23:29 PM
Uh duh it is fiction but it's historical fantasy we love
I like historical fantasy as well.  Have you read any of Turtledove's works?  Google him and he has quite an amazing list of fantasy/alternative history novels he's written. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Draconic Aiur

Quote from: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 02:18:14 PM
I like historical fantasy as well.  Have you read any of Turtledove's works?  Google him and he has quite an amazing list of fantasy/alternative history novels he's written. 

l was saying past fantasy that can b high fantasy

Sal1981

I still don't care whether Superman is white or not, but if DC is doing this because of some PC bullshit, I reckon the franchise is gonna tank further.

Baruch

#81
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
I quite agree.  And as long as you don't try to force your fiction on me--or claim it is not fiction--that works for me.

All political agendas are fiction, whether or not they have a religious tie in or not.  The whole political narrative of the last three years is fiction, as written by guys on drugs.  It is bad enough the spooks control the narratives, but now the spooks are on LSD.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SoldierofFortune

What about " black barbie girl "...

Capitalism finally succeed at selling black barbies at toy stores and markets...to black gurls who once upon a time were slaves in amarica

Baruch

Quote from: SoldierofFortune on September 20, 2018, 07:27:46 PM
What about " black barbie girl "...

Capitalism finally succeed at selling black barbies at toy stores and markets...to black gurls who once upon a time were slaves in amarica

Minorities are still slaves to the R-D party.  They are just kept in delusion.  American politics is worse than finding a dried pea under fast moving walnut half-shells.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SoldierofFortune

Quote from: Baruch on September 20, 2018, 07:36:29 PM
Minorities are still slaves to the R-D party.  They are just kept in delusion.  American politics is worse than finding a dried pea under fast moving walnut half-shells.
Didnt get the idiom or proverb whatever it is. Generally it is hard to me to understand you and your rhetorik.

Blacks doesnt count as minority though. But the fields in politics businesses etc that they are effective are limited when looking at their population rate.

trdsf

#85
I'm inclined to these two questions: if Superman were being created today, is there a reason he has to be any particular ethnicity, other than publication history?  And on the flip side, is there a reason he has to be any particular ethnicity, other than trying to grab headlines?

It's also worth going back to look at some comics from the 30s and 40s -- and for that matter, on into the 60s -- and good luck coming up with any heroes of color.  It was a different time -- fundamentally, Superman is white because in 1938, social mores in the US dictated that there was no other color he could be, even if making him some other ethnicity had ever crossed the minds of his creators (and there's no evidence it had).  Check out the Digital Comic Museum and good damn luck finding any minority representations from that era that aren't offensively stereotypical at best and racist at worst.  Even as late as 1966, Jim Shooter was forbidden by DC Comics from creating a black hero for the Legion series because "we'll lose our distribution in the South."

If they're rebooting Supes, personally, I don't care what color he comes out of it as.  I'm more interested in whether it'd have good writing and art.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Mike Cl

Quote from: SoldierofFortune on September 20, 2018, 07:27:46 PM
What about " black barbie girl "...

Capitalism finally succeed at selling black barbies at toy stores and markets...to black gurls who once upon a time were slaves in amarica
Don't you just have a razor sharp mind, tho?!!!  You are so smart you could easily go work for the Trump administration I bet.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

trdsf

Quote from: Munch on September 19, 2018, 08:20:33 PM
Storm from the x-men can only be black
Luke cage can only be black
Falcon can only be black
Blade can only be black
Sunfire can only be japanese
Jubilee can only be chinese-american
Katana can only be japanese

How would you feel if any of these characters were made white?
Would it piss you off, claiming its removing a core aspect of their character, even if they keep the same personality?
That's a little disingenuous.  Many of these characters were created in order to make comics look a little more like society at large, since before them supers were almost universally white Westerners.  If Marvel, DC, et al. had already resembled the real world rather than an almost universally Western Caucasian world, then no, there would be no reason any of them would have had to be created their particular ethnicity and it wouldn't make any difference to change it now.

Instead, prior to then, supers comics were primarily white men, presumably straight, with a small number of white women, also presumably straight, and typically dressed more for titillation than crime prevention: do Black Canary and Zatanna really think fishnets are sensible heroing attire?  We won't even get into Wonder Woman's bondage/dom/sub history.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Hakurei Reimu

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on September 20, 2018, 01:26:41 AM
And yet the comics depict him being closer to Caucasian then anything.
Well, brand recognition is a thing. That's not something you mess with without a compelling reason. It works with "what if" stories, but when it's treated as the color of a make of car, that's when I get turned off by it.

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I don't know about you but Marvel's Jack Kirby was Jewish and thy mad Captain America a Nazi out of spit because he was a whit male "American patriot" and whit or Jewish people cant be people, cant they in our shitty PC world.
Hydra Cap America was a bungled story, period. Maybe it was PC bullshit, but I am of the opinion that there are no bad plots, only bad execution of plots. There was a good story screaming to get out in there, if only it was handled by a competent author. That's what's missing from both Marvel and DC lately. Instead of writing good stories about amazing people in amazing scenarios, we get cheap gimmicks and hack writing. There's no real storycraft involved; just cheap thrills.

The Silver Age of Superman was filled to the brim with unmitigated dreck. It is part of the reason why comic books became synonymous with shitty writing, flimsy plots, and action driven by stupidity in one form or another â€" literature suited only for little kids who didn't know any better. Those of us who lived through the Comics Renaissance have been spoiled by the gems that have been dropped, and gaze in dismay upon the current trend and don't realize that this is the way comics have been through most of their history. The Renaissance was followed by the Dark & Gritty Age, to be followed by the Big Shock Age, and then the Shovelware Age, and now we're in the next gimmicky age, the "Diversity" Age. It's just another gimmick that the "creators" are pulling out to get us to read their dreck. After the "Diversity" Age, there'll be another age of bullshit, and another gimmick â€" unless they finally learn their lesson this time and become storytellers again.

Quote
Now Yes, cultural appropriation is shit and promotes racism, but it shows that people want their historical and historical fiction characters to be displayed as they were before all this white washing began.

Their are actors that don't fit the criteria like a black Gwnavere in the TV show Merlin but even though its displayed as equality of cast it's still goes against history and I have seen people shit on mythologies and fiction saying their fiction so we can do whatever we want.
No. The problem runs much deeper than that. The gimmicky nature of the "diversity" train just exposes to people the truth: that these are just bad stories. They are bland, uninteresting, and do not carry any impermature of thought and craft â€" as proven by the racial/gender musical chairs. There's no real uniqueness to the characters, and no feeling that the stories they are in are theirs and theirs alone. It's paint-by-numbers, and has been such through most of the history of mass-entertainment.

Quote
But its the culture presentation of the characters portrayed on the tv and big screen that matters not that you want to cosplay as batman vn though you might b Asian.
Pfft, please. Barriers of race, gender, species, and even being biological have never stopped the determined fan from dressing up as their favorite character. This has never been about bowing to the fans, because the fans don't care. This has always been about "creators" disguising cheap gimmicks and schlock stories as good writing in order to boost sales.

Believe it or not, at least one franchise has made changing its main character on a semi-regluar basis work like a dream. The different iterations varied in interest, personality, and goals. There has even been an instance where one of the incarnations was a woman.

I'm not talking about the Doctor, either.

I'm talking about Hirohiko Araki's opus, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. It goes from an English gentleman, to a American Brit, a Japanese tough-guy, a Japanese pompadour, an Itallian mobster-let, a young American woman of mixed ancestry, an American paraplegic jockey, and the current incantation, a Japanese wierdo. Each stage, Jojo made the transition successfully, with each Jojo having an adventure to call their own and uniquely theirs. All the Jojos are united by their bloodline and their names, yet none can substitute for each other. There are no cheap gimmicks here â€" just storycrafting by a master, and someone who loves what he does.

Back to American comics, one of my favorite series from Marvel was What If? which was basically an exploration of alternate Marvel histories curated by the Watcher Uatu. I haven't followed that particular comic in years (I understand it had changed drastically since I stopped), but when I was reading it, each comic explained how the situation came about, and how it resolved itself, with a veracity deserving of the House of Ideas that Marvel used to be. No cheap tricks and gimmicks, just storycrafting.

And again, both the above examples illustrate the main thrust: "diversity" is being used as a gimmick instead of a genuine storytelling tool. To the suits on high, it was never about "diversity" but rather about trying to get us to buy schlock stories that only pretended to be storytelling, using "diversity" as a gimmick to suck in the SJW crowd who never really cared about comics in the first place, and won't care afterward.
Warning: Don't Tease The Miko!
(she bites!)
Spinny Miko Avatar shamelessly ripped off from Iosys' Neko Miko Reimu

SoldierofFortune

Quote from: Mike Cl on September 20, 2018, 09:05:19 PM
Don't you just have a razor sharp mind, tho?!!!  You are so smart you could easily go work for the Trump administration I bet.

This is a compliment or what kind of irony or satire?
I just wonder if you side with Trump administration or not...?
I am looking for a job that is suitable my qualifications. Of course if i take invitation i may consider on it but Turkland government may charge me of betrsyal i am afraid...
Though, there is a coordination bureu of CIA in Turkish intelligence organization and USA and Turkland are allied two states...