Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party

Started by pr126, September 10, 2018, 09:09:45 AM

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Shiranu

QuoteWhenever Republicans use the word "Socialism" to criticize the safety net, there are many Democrats, Socialists, Greens, etc, quick to correct them on that point.

No, there are many Democrats, Socialists, Greens, etc. quick to correct them on the necessity of those social nets, not the definition of socialism afaik. Not too many people are so hung up over terminology.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

Quote from: Hydra009 on September 30, 2018, 10:56:50 PM
Please spread the word to the GOP.

That isn't their real problem.  The problem is that you aren't out picking cotton in the field.  They brought the S Democrats under their big tent, years ago.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on September 30, 2018, 11:22:38 PM
Whenever Republicans use the word "Socialism" to criticize the safety net, there are many Democrats, Socialists, Greens, etc, quick to correct them on that point.  But whenever someone uses the word "Socialism" to praise the safety net, nobody except me corrects them.

If it is wrong to use it in criticism, it is wrong to use it in praise.

Republicans use the term "socialism" to suggest "communinism" in a Russian style, so that is inaccurate.  I use the term "social democracy" to represent a democracy oriented toward progressive values of sharing general expenses like roads, education, health services, etc.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2018, 05:27:23 AM
Republicans use the term "socialism" to suggest "communinism" in a Russian style, so that is inaccurate.  I use the term "social democracy" to represent a democracy oriented toward progressive values of sharing general expenses like roads, education, health services, etc.

Some things, like roads, fall naturally into the public sphere.  And are corrupt if privatized.  It isn't black and white, so I have to agree with that part.  I don't believe in progress, but I do believe in balance.  Progress means moving from one extreme to another.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on October 01, 2018, 06:25:23 AM
Some things, like roads, fall naturally into the public sphere.  And are corrupt if privatized.  It isn't black and white, so I have to agree with that part.  I don't believe in progress, but I do believe in balance.  Progress means moving from one extreme to another.

Progress means living better than the previous generations.  Unless you WANT to live in a cave up to your ankles in feces...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2018, 07:20:27 AM
Progress means living better than the previous generations.  Unless you WANT to live in a cave up to your ankles in feces...

That isn't an improvement.  Would rather be with a good person in a Medieval hovel, than with a bad person in a penthouse.  But materialists are what they are.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on October 01, 2018, 12:35:08 PM
That isn't an improvement.  Would rather be with a good person in a Medieval hovel, than with a bad person in a penthouse.  But materialists are what they are.

Your dichotomy is limited.  I'd rather be a decent person in modern suburbia for example. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2018, 12:40:41 PM
Your dichotomy is limited.  I'd rather be a decent person in modern suburbia for example.

Prepare to be disappointed.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on October 01, 2018, 12:55:32 PM
Prepare to be disappointed.

I live on a dead-end street in semi-wilderness suburbia.  I have a pond.  My pond has frogs.  There are toads and harmless (to me) snakes and turtles around.  I have a hawk.  I have deer (and may they choke eating my hostas).  MY suburbis is not quite like most surburban houses.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2018, 01:06:09 PM
I live on a dead-end street in semi-wilderness suburbia.  I have a pond.  My pond has frogs.  There are toads and harmless (to me) snakes and turtles around.  I have a hawk.  I have deer (and may they choke eating my hostas).  MY suburbis is not quite like most surburban houses.

But alone, without the one essential species ... monkey people.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Jason Harvestdancer

Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2018, 07:20:27 AM
Progress means living better than the previous generations.  Unless you WANT to live in a cave up to your ankles in feces...
Yes, but since we're mixing colloquial usages and field jargon, I must point out that not everything a progressive does is necessarily progress.
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.<br /><br />No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Shiranu

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on October 01, 2018, 07:57:28 PM
Yes, but since we're mixing colloquial usages and field jargon, I must point out that not everything a progressive does is necessarily progress.

And not everything a conservative does is conservative. What is your point?

At the end of the day, in America, progressivism has been a major part of our Golden Ages... the New Deal and recovering from the Great Depression, the abolition of slavery and later segregation, women's suffrage and increased rights to their bodies/better workplace treatment, the opposition to Vietnam and Iraq, child labour laws, medical safety nets, improvements to our education systems, the LGBT+ rights movement... all these things and so many more that made our country a shining beacon were championed by progressives.

What did conservatives offer the United States? The conservative Supreme Court shot down multiple organizations that FDR established to combat poverty. The conservatives were the ones fighting to protect slave owner's rights. The conservatives were the ones that fought to keep African Americans segregated. The conservatives fought to keep women from having the right to vote or the right to their body. The conservatives have stripped our education system bare in the name of "saving money". The conservatives have butchered our medical system in the name of "saving money". The conservatives were the one's who got us into Vietnam, Korea, Iraq all in the name of "conserving our culture against the threat of communism/'terrorism'." Conservatives were the ones who fought against 40 hour work weeks, minimum age laws and worker/union rights.

I could go on, but you get the point. Pointing out that progressives aren't always progressive is fair enough, so long as you are willing to admit that conservatives have a very long track record of being neither conservative nor right.

There are more than a fair few conservative points that I actually agree with, or at least think can be implemented into progressive ideology for a better out come, but when we look at the tract record of progressivsm vs conservatism in the United States... conservatives have been almost unerringly on the wrong side of history. And I am making a point to say progressives and conservatives vs Dems and Republicans because even to this day the Democratic party is overwhelmingly conservative because American culture is conservative.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

You are like Spiderman, but without the suit ;-)  You don't need the Justice League, you can do it all by yourself.  With policy.

"And I am making a point to say progressives and conservatives vs Dems and Republicans because even to this day the Democratic party is overwhelmingly conservative because American culture is conservative."

That last part is ... excellent.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

AllPurposeAtheist

Very few people even understand what the term 'conservative' actually means anymore.  In politics in the US or even the UK it certainly no longer means, "1 : favoring a policy of keeping things as they are : opposed to change. 2 : favoring established styles and standards He wears conservative ties. 3 : likely to be lower than what the real amount or number is a conservative estimate." as defined by Miriam Webster.
No, anymore it means extreme radicalism skewed towards Fascism along with redefining the parameters of what we have traditionally considered to be lying. Lying is now called alternative facts. It's still lying.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Baruch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSNlyVvnq5g

Civil War began in 2016.  It continues today.  Both sides are self righteous crusaders, as they were in 1861.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.