Author Topic: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party  (Read 4724 times)

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #75 on: October 04, 2018, 09:52:45 AM »
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Civil War began in 2016.  It continues today.  Both sides are self righteous crusaders, as they were in 1861.

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If there is a civil war it started in the 1990's. It looks like the split has been more recent because in 2010 the number of Americans on social media reached fifty percent. The current polarization is fueled by social media. If there was no Facebook, Twitter, reddit or other social media you probably wouldn't know your neighbor's political opinions and the "culture war" would be taking place in print media, televised news and on university campuses. There would be no misinformation campaigns specifically targeted to individuals, where algorithms curate news based your specific political beliefs to keep you clicking. Trump wouldn't have been elected because his base wouldn't have had the ability to organize, the establishment would be intact. Without social media, we wouldn't be having this conversation inside our atheist echo chamber.

I don't think civil war is the right model for where America is right now. Due to technology we are in a completely new place where the old ways of looking at the world don't give us an accurate picture. For example, has there been any other civil war where if you aren't online you wouldn't know we are at war? Traveling around the USA over the summer I noticed no fenced borders, no soldiers, no curfews, no supply shortage, no protesters and almost everyone I talked to was perfectly pleasant. If we are in a civil war it has become so civil as to be innocuous. "Culture war" is an addictive online role-playing game.
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #76 on: October 04, 2018, 10:21:52 AM »
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Socialism is collective ownership of the means of production.  Not a safety net.  Not welfare.  Not regulations.

I didn't say otherwise so I am not sure why you're quoting me there.

Offline Baruch

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #77 on: October 04, 2018, 12:43:56 PM »
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National borders change thoughout history.  People move.  Nothing stays the same.  Trade routes change.  Goods change.

Those without children don't sweat the future.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #78 on: October 04, 2018, 12:48:45 PM »
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Those without children don't sweat the future.

Wrong, as usual.  I have no children and I sweat every election.  I plan to live another 20+ years.  The future still matters to ME!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #79 on: October 04, 2018, 12:51:18 PM »
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Wrong, as usual.  I have no children and I sweat every election.  I plan to live another 20+ years.  The future still matters to ME!

That is because you are as addicted to politics, as NY people are addicted to the NY Yankees?

People consider politics the new blood sport.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #80 on: October 04, 2018, 12:59:17 PM »
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That is because you are as addicted to politics, as NY people are addicted to the NY Yankees?

People consider politics the new blood sport.

Working and living around Washington DC will do that.  Our local newspaper is national...

But I don't consider politics a "blood sport".  It is much meaner than THAT!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #81 on: October 04, 2018, 01:11:22 PM »
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Wrong, as usual.  I have no children and I sweat every election.  I plan to live another 20+ years.  The future still matters to ME!

As an atheist who doesn't and will never have children, I feel less anxiety regarding what will happen in the future than people I know who have children. Children are an investment in the future and I hope parents are therefore highly motivated to create a future where their children will thrive. I certainly care about the world but I don't have such a personal investment. This difference in investment and motivation seems obvious to me but it is an unpopular opinion.
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline Baruch

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #82 on: October 04, 2018, 01:15:26 PM »
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As an atheist who doesn't and will never have children, I feel less anxiety regarding what will happen in the future than people I know who have children. Children are an investment in the future and I hope parents are therefore highly motivated to create a future where their children will thrive. I certainly care about the world but I don't have such a personal investment. This difference in investment and motivation seems obvious to me but it is an unpopular opinion.

It is only natural.  But like an ex-smoker, the ex-smoker makes the best anti-smoking zealot.  So if you want the best pro-child person, you need someone who used to be a child.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #83 on: October 04, 2018, 01:18:17 PM »
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As an atheist who doesn't and will never have children, I feel less anxiety regarding what will happen in the future than people I know who have children. Children are an investment in the future and I hope parents are therefore highly motivated to create a future where their children will thrive. I certainly care about the world but I don't have such a personal investment. This difference in investment and motivation seems obvious to me but it is an unpopular opinion.

Well, true, but we both still have a future to live through.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline SGOS

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2018, 05:58:56 AM »
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As an atheist who doesn't and will never have children, I feel less anxiety regarding what will happen in the future than people I know who have children. Children are an investment in the future and I hope parents are therefore highly motivated to create a future where their children will thrive. I certainly care about the world but I don't have such a personal investment. This difference in investment and motivation seems obvious to me but it is an unpopular opinion.
During a conversation with a friend, who himself had kids and grandchildren, it came out that he didn't give a shit about global warming.  When I asked if he was concerned about his children's future, he responded, "I suppose I should be," and then he stared off into space briefly, shrugged and added, "but I don't give a shit about it."  It's odd, because he fawns over his kids excessively compared to other parents.  I have no kids, yet I was more concerned for his kid's futures than he was.

I've had discussions with deniers, and the ill informed, but the only time I posed the question to a knowledgeable person, I got an "I don't give a shit."  It kind of made me wonder why I should give a shit.  I don't have any kids myself, but I do have compassion for the human race.  But why should I care about other people's kids, or the human race for that matter?  From an evolutionary standpoint we are the dominant species, but we act without regard for anything but our immediate greed.  Not the entire race, and many people are not like that at all, but so many are that they will drag the rest of the species with them, and at the end, they will be pointing fingers at anyone other than themselves.  So why should I give a shit about their kids?  In the end, I have no faith in humanity, and but a minute amount of optimism over how we will shape the future.  And in 10 years, I'm probably going to be dead anyway.  Yet, I have this desire to preserve a good life for others.  I can't explain it.

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2018, 06:23:37 AM »
When a problem seems overwhelming sometimes people respond by feigning they don't care. Disinterest can be a psychological defense against feelings of helpssness.

Or perhaps he really "doesn't give a shit."
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 06:55:58 AM by GSOgymrat »
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline SGOS

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #86 on: October 10, 2018, 08:08:10 AM »
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When a problem seems overwhelming sometimes people respond by feigning they don't care. Disinterest can be a psychological defense against feelings of helpssness.
Yes, I sensed a tell in his reply that suggested his response was not quite what it signaled, although I don't know what it did signal, just that the response was not totally genuine, maybe.  I tried to hint that in the way I wrote about his reaction, but it's hard to convey an intuition, so I didn't work very hard at it.  In the end, I don't know.  One thing that I do clearly know is that he holds conservation in very low regard.  He might have hesitated over his disregard when confronted with thoughts about his grandchildren.  It's possible he had never given it any thought.

At any rate, he's just one example, and doesn't necessarily represent the view's of all parents...

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #87 on: October 10, 2018, 08:50:11 AM »
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BTW, do you realize what a small percent of the voting public 57,000 socialists and communists would be?  And how unlikely they would be to really influence events?
Monster Shouters don't count monsters, they'd realize they were being silly if they did.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #88 on: October 10, 2018, 01:01:50 PM »
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Monster Shouters don't count monsters, they'd realize they were being silly if they did.

Inconsequential numbers?  Then, one Jesus ... today, 3 billion people today.  Or you can use Islam as an example.  It takes one person to steer a ship, if you give them the helm.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Socialists and Communists Plan to Take Over the Democratic Party
« Reply #89 on: October 10, 2018, 01:27:24 PM »
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During a conversation with a friend, who himself had kids and grandchildren, it came out that he didn't give a shit about global warming.  When I asked if he was concerned about his children's future, he responded, "I suppose I should be," and then he stared off into space briefly, shrugged and added, "but I don't give a shit about it."  It's odd, because he fawns over his kids excessively compared to other parents.  I have no kids, yet I was more concerned for his kid's futures than he was.

I've had discussions with deniers, and the ill informed, but the only time I posed the question to a knowledgeable person, I got an "I don't give a shit."  It kind of made me wonder why I should give a shit.  I don't have any kids myself, but I do have compassion for the human race.  But why should I care about other people's kids, or the human race for that matter?  From an evolutionary standpoint we are the dominant species, but we act without regard for anything but our immediate greed.  Not the entire race, and many people are not like that at all, but so many are that they will drag the rest of the species with them, and at the end, they will be pointing fingers at anyone other than themselves.  So why should I give a shit about their kids?  In the end, I have no faith in humanity, and but a minute amount of optimism over how we will shape the future.  And in 10 years, I'm probably going to be dead anyway.  Yet, I have this desire to preserve a good life for others.  I can't explain it.

I "give a shit".  Even though I have no kids, my years will be controlled by them in a way.  That matters.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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